Overtime

To many ads? Support ODJT and see no ads!
What turnip truck did that logic fall from?

OT is gravy? Labor is gravy? Risk is gravy? Reputation is gravy?

Then again, if one doesn't do anything of value during the first four hours, it's reasonable to assume the fifth or sixth will match it.

Those things have to be accounted for for sure, and they are accounted for in the base rate and or rate you contracted the event for right?

My only point/question is: Why are those things suddenly "worth more" per hour simply because the need for them was seen at the event itself instead of being contracted for up-front? Why should that hour cost the client more than a stated hourly rate that was contracted for?

(And let's remember: "Because they will pay 'x'" doesn't constitute a basis for the increased price itself.)

If an answer to that question can't be tied to actual tangibles (i.e. some additional hard-cost incurred on your side or some actual benefit the client receives in that last hour they didn't during the first 4/5), then the turnip truck logic remains unassailed.:sqlaugh:
 
Sounds To Go : Now we're chatting.

If what you say is true, that the costs for any unexpected overtime are or should be identical to those of the original scheduled hours, then one can only assume that nothing changes in the extra time from the opening gun.

Your energy level is the same, the crowd's sobriety is the same, the wait staff and bartender's moods are the same, the client's attitudes are still the same, everything is the same.

In truth and fact it's not. That unexpected extended time is the time frame most prone to disaster!

The risk to reputation factor rises in direct proportion to the ticking clock. The music that is played in OT is more directed, hand selected to the remainder of those in attendance, and the skills required to keep drunken fools in check are priceless. That, my friend, is worth more than the first hour. I expect to be compensated for that expertise.

If a union truck driver can get time and half for their overtime, so can I, even though I don't charge double for Holidays. :>) ~!
 
TO RE-CAP* (my position about OT)

I charge more for overtime--- "because I can" (experience = demand)

I charge more for O/T because its usually a PITA, particularly if someone is "passing the hat" and I'll have to count all the $1 & 5 bills (and sometimes quarters).

I charge more for O/T because that way the 6 hour package becomes our best deal, like Costco. I can sell a longer event, and that way I don't have to worry about the event running short of time!

*an unintended pun, get it??? -- re-CAP = to reinforce valid points made by others (above)
 
Sounds To Go : Now we're chatting.

If what you say is true, that the costs for any unexpected overtime are or should be identical to those of the original scheduled hours, then one can only assume that nothing changes in the extra time from the opening gun.

Your energy level is the same, the crowd's sobriety is the same, the wait staff and bartender's moods are the same, the client's attitudes are still the same, everything is the same.

In truth and fact it's not. That unexpected extended time is the time frame most prone to disaster!

The risk to reputation factor rises in direct proportion to the ticking clock. The music that is played in OT is more directed, hand selected to the remainder of those in attendance, and the skills required to keep drunken fools in check are priceless. That, my friend, is worth more than the first hour. I expect to be compensated for that expertise.

If a union truck driver can get time and half for their overtime, so can I, even though I don't charge double for Holidays. :>) ~!

Fair enough!

My response to your points would be thus: They pay X per hr for "CAP THE AWESOME EXPERIENCED DJ" (I don't mean that sarcastically at all - please don't think I do... just reinforcing what you've said about your experience and skills).

They get "CAP THE AWESOME EXPERIENCED DJ" in the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, etc. hours of their event. All those skills are there all along. They don't get a "more talented" or "more experienced" CAP in that one hour of OT... you're YOU from the time you walk in and set up until you stop the last song! Your rate should reflect that (and I am sure it does, rightfully so).

Just seems to me if we were to follow your reasoning to it's logical conclusion (which would be silly), we would all charge one hourly rate for cocktail hour because it's a cinch, a little more for dinner, BOOCKOO/hr for dancing, etc. We would have 3 or 4 different hourly rates for each event based upon the skillsets needed or used during each segment. We should all give our best during every part of the event, from the least to the most demanding parts of it. Doesn't mean any part of the event is worth any more - or less than any other. And if we feel we aren't compensated in-line with our worth, we just need to re-evaluate our pricing on the whole.

I can say I fully understand and respect your reasons now for an increased hourly OT rate: The work gets harder, you get paid more. Seems simple enough! Perhaps your more nuanced approach is simply a result of the experience you have under your belt that I don't. We all formulate pricing differently, which is fine!
 
Let me ask you this Cap:

Have you ever turned down overtime based on a risk-to-reputation (your term... I am assuming I understand what it means) scenario? Or have you just charged more for it in each case? Have you ever done OT where you feel you were burnt on that consideration in the end reputation-wise, where in hindsight you wish you hadn't done it?

You cited risk to reputation as justification for charging an increased rate, I'm just wondering if you've ever felt yourself to have come up on the short end of that stick at an event. Just looking for scenarios, and impressions based on experience in this area.
 
Sounds To Go : Only a mere handful of events in the last 31 years has OT been declined on my call alone. Most often, the banquet owners/managers are experiencing the same negative phenomenons that I am and they decline even before the option is presented to me. As a matter of policy, no client may request OT from me without the banquet manger present. Man, do I get venue brownie points for that one.

Too bad there isn't a magic crystal ball that had the power to forewarn of impending doom as OT should've been declined in twice the numbers that were. The last hour in those cases lasted a week. Two times, some parking lot education was a result. Now, at this point in my career, it is much wiser to err slightly on the side of caution.

Those experiences are precisely the reason the all inclusive pricing package that includes all the time they want, e.g. 4-5-6-7-8 hours, is not a personal business package offering.

I'm sure you will make the right decisions for your business and career as well and wish you good luck and great skill with it. Thank you for the questions and the clarity of responses.
 
I had one event a while back for a Colombian couple that it was from 8-12am and they kept coming back after 12 and told me to keep on going until they tell me to stop. The wedding went until 5AM and the tip was even more surprising. The problem was there was two guys passed out in the restroom! I wonder what they were doing in there!:sqlaugh:
 
Sounds To Go : On a mere handful of events in the last 31 years has OT been declined on my call alone. Most often, the banquet owners/managers are experiencing the same negative phenomenons that I am.

Too bad there isn't a magic crystal ball that had the power to forewarn of impending doom as OT should've been declined in twice the numbers that were. The last hour in those cases lasted a week. Two times, some parking lot education was a result. Now, at this point in my career, it is much wiser to err slightly on the side of caution.

Those experiences are precisely the reason the all inclusive pricing package that includes all the time they want, e.g. 4-5-6-7-8 hours, is not a personal business package offering.

I'm sure you will make the right decisions for your business and career as well and wish you good luck and great skill with it. Thank you for the questions and the clarity of responses.

I hear ya Cap. I as well am not for the "all you can eat" approach to dj pricing. As for questions and responses, that is why we are all here!

I may sound like I know it all (or assume I do) sometimes, but I wouldn't be here talkin' to y'all if I did!

Just keep kickin me in the rear when I get too far off track or out of line.
 
SoundsToGo, your logic applies only if you operate in a box.

The customer is not the only one with a schedule - I have one, my business has one, and all of my employees have one, and transportation creates one too.

Schedule changes cause conflicts and resolving conflicts is expensive.

There are also other issues that can arise:

One afternoon party several years ago, scheduled from 12-4 pm turned out to last until 10 pm. Not only did we have to replace the DJ for schedule purposes, but the crowd had evolved such that the music being requested was now ALL High Energy Motown.

The DJ who handled the original party hours plus the first hour of OT did not have the musical depth and experience to play 4 more hours of danceable Motown. By the time I got there to replace her she had nearly exhausted her knowledge of that musical genre. Having the music is not the same as knowing how to present it.

The guests were thrilled with the earlier DJ - but the longer this party went on, the more it moved away from her skill-set. Keeping the same energy level under the changing conditions required a change of DJ (a DJ who consequently is more expensive because of the deeper skill set.)

The invoice ended up being 2-1/2 times the original quote.
 
SoundsToGo, your logic applies only if you operate in a box.

The customer is not the only one with a schedule - I have one, my business has one, and all of my employees have one, and transportation creates one too.

Schedule changes cause conflicts and resolving conflicts is expensive.

There are also other issues that can arise:

One afternoon party several years ago, scheduled from 12-4 pm turned out to last until 10 pm. Not only did we have to replace the DJ for schedule purposes, but the crowd had evolved such that the music being requested was now ALL High Energy Motown.

The DJ who handled the original party hours plus the first hour of OT did not have the musical depth and experience to play 4 more hours of danceable Motown. By the time I got there to replace her she had nearly exhausted her knowledge of that musical genre. Having the music is not the same as knowing how to present it.

The guests were thrilled with the earlier DJ - but the longer this party went on, the more it moved away from her skill-set. Keeping the same energy level under the changing conditions required a change of DJ (a DJ who consequently is more expensive because of the deeper skill set.)

The invoice ended up being 2-1/2 times the original quote.

Very good points, and nice example regarding the "dj burnout," but it has nothing to do with "a box" and all to do with the difference between a single and multi-op business that has to account for all the variables you mention.

Also, you'll notice that my points so far concern only single-performer situations. Sure, there is always the 1 in 1000 situation you describe where you would have to bring in "the big guns," and sure, different performer = different hourly rate (maybe). You'd never hear me saying my views expressed here on the matter hold for any conceivable situation or set of circumstances... that would be silly. They apply *only*to 99.999% of the situations faced by a single-op, sole-proprietor.

Thanks for pointing out the need for clarification!
 
In my little world, OT is worth $$. We spend 5 hours in setup, 4 hours of dance, 3 hours of teardown. That's 12 hours of work if we have no events prior (dinner, difficult access for loading, etc), or anything else on the schedule. If they want more, they will have to pay a little for it. It makes for a long day and a lot of work already; no pay-no play.
 
They apply *only*to 99.999% of the situations faced by a single-op, sole-proprietor.

Let's clarify this: I'm a single-op, always have been. But, I'm not a super-hero and I don't operate in isolation.

The value of your time reflects the value of your commitments.

If you're the "go-it-alone" type then I'll agree the value of your time should remian uniform because it is unlikely anyone else would be waiting on you.