I think it's a stretch to call them a "win" because it's pretty common knowledge that these are an advertising courtesy.
My point is that over-emphasizing participation medals can and does promote hesitation with many prospects.
Do you post awards in your footer?
- Thread starter Albatross
- Start date
I think it's a stretch to call them a "win" because it's pretty common knowledge that these are an advertising courtesy.
My point is that over-emphasizing participation medals can and does promote hesitation with many prospects.
You can advertise all you want, if you don't get reviews from clients, you won't get them. I'm not sure why seem to be hung up by not knowing how they work. But for a guy asking for "examples" you seem to be spewing the same bullsh*t over and over without providing any of your own examples.
I know how (online) reviews work.
I also know that the topic debated is not reviews. The topic is filling your email footer with award placards from online directories.
I've given you an examples of how I've found that to be counterproductive to the email's effectiveness.
Linking to your review can be done in a variety of ways solicited and unsolicited.
What positive or negative attributes do you associate with a plethora of omnipresent placards across the bottom of every email?
I'm not asking WHY you do it. I'm asking you how you measure it's impact? I suspect that you never have?
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This thread started about whether displaying them in an e-mail footer is worthwhile, and it's pretty clear where you stand on that. I'm fine with your opinion on it.
What is frustrating is that you are repeatedly saying that Best of TK and Couple's Choice are participation trophies for advertisers. Which is flat out untrue. If you can win without advertising. Or you can not get one as an advertiser... I simply don't have a clue what your argument is standing on. And since you don't have any actual examples like you asked me for, now you're going back to question the footer.
And how could I measure the impact of the footer if I just started trying it a few days ago?
In a low volume business like we're in, there wouldn't be enough signal to noise to ever just the impact of just a footer anyway. A deal can be won with a bad footer, and lost with a great one. Data on the impact would be anecdotal at best.
I'll have to agree with him (sorry). As a WW advertiser for about 10 years and a TK advertiser for 2-3 years, it's been my observation that they give these awards to advertisers or people they're trying to bait into becoming advertisers. I had a couple of years, when I was buying advertising, and they didn't initially send me an award. As soon as I complained, presto, there's my magic award. In my mind, both WW and TK (they're both owned by WW now) are completely bogus and they fake a substantial number of leads. They're only about scamming advertising dollars by hook or by crook.
I've fired them both.
I'm not frustrated that you consider a free listing to be something other than advertising.
I'm not frustrated that you think that Best of TK is something other than an advertising incentive (participation trophy.)
I'm not even frustrated that your so emotionally invested in changing the topic, I'm simply refusing to adopt your interpretation.
You're right that I don't do it, and I've told you how I arrived at that decision.
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Rick, looking at your WW, you have 8 reviews. Looking at the dates, the bulk of them were fall of 2014 and calendar 2015. Your page shows a win for the 2016 season.
The measurement period runs something like October - October, and they issue the following years Couples Choice over the winter for the next year. It makes sense that you'd have won it for 2016 because you had enough reviews in the 2015 measurement period to qualify. If that's the window you're talking about, I don't think your complaint had anything to do with it. I just think you hit the number.
But they certainly might have made a concession if you were paying and you asked. I have no idea what the integrity of the system is, but I'd hope that isn't how people are winning.
If you mean overall, I believe my count is something around 125 reviews (are we looking at the same page?). Honestly, I don't remember the review counts on particular years, nor do I track those kinds of details closely (to my shame). All I can tell you is my perception of the pattern of the way they do business. From year to year, there always was a spike of "leads", right around renewal time. They'd try jacking rates then back down when you called them on it. The awards always also seemed to follow a pattern of whether you were an advertiser or a prospective advertiser. I've see a lot of un-ethical behavior, which spans across multiple employees. I can only assume it's institutional dishonesty, based on my observations over numerous years. Perhaps they are squeaky clean and honest, like you're giving them credit for but I just don't buy it. They're snakes in my book.
This is the one I was referring to, but it sounds like you have a second page:
Ryan Events Photo - DJ - Lighting Reviews - Nashville, TN - 8 Reviews - (https://www.weddingwire.com/reviews/ryan-events-photo-dj-lighting-nashville/422a4d1de5c85068.html?sort_order=1)
That's not true. You just don't approve.
You have proposed the notion of getting positive results from this practice and have not found anyone with an example.
That's not my fault.
I don't engage in the practice because I measure a negative impact, and have illustrated examples of why it's a negative amoung the clients I'm interested in.
You admittedly are just now trying this so, where does your certainty of it's positive impact come from?
Nobody has suggested online reviews aren't helpful. But that wasn't the question posed.
Perhaps threads like this should get their own section?
Read that again, and then again - until it sinks in that what you just described with diligent precision is a "participation award."
Do you really think I'm the only person who understands that?
Not trying to prevent you from adding them to your emails - just not willing to adopt the detachment of your enthusiasm.
If you want to call a certain number of client review to qualify a participation trophy... knock yourself out. If you want to call a free listing an advertisement, sweet. You're trying to pick apart the semantics, and I don't think it's adding any value.
I don't have certainty of positive impact. It was a thesis, and it's something I'm trying. I was opening it up to this group to see if anyone had feedback or their own anecdotes from having done something similar.
My goal was never to build consensus. But you decided to take issue with the industry accolades themselves versus just whether the footer is an appropriate place to display them.
OMG!!! You’re accusing PROposterous of TAKING ISSUE with your post??? HERESY!!![emoji1]
Of course .. a down payment of $19.97, and the remainder due within 2 weeks of delivery.
Whether it's a participation award or not .. does it really matter if there is no indication one way or the other if it helps or hurts business? In the absence of any concrete evidence it hurts you, then "Why Not" if you like that kind of thing. If there are positive reviews available for you, it would seem to be a simple way of steering people to that site, whether it benefits TK/WW or not. No different than steering people to your social media sites with the little "f" or the bird by your signature.
I think we're making a mountain over a molehill about their use. Whether they're worth any money for that can still be up for debate.
I think we're making a mountain over a molehill about their use. Whether they're worth any money for that can still be up for debate.
That right there is funny. It costs $19.95 - but with a payment plan, it's $19.97 with a remainder due.
I reserve the 'f' and 'the bird' for special people (the ones I don't like).
I usually reserve the big F ..That right there is funny. It costs $19.95 - but with a payment plan, it's $19.97 with a remainder due.
I reserve the 'f' and 'the bird' for special people (the ones I don't like).