Gig Report 10/4/07 - Middle School Dance

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Boy was this a learning experience for me, and I learned the hard way. This was my second gig (evar) and first middle school dance. I'll try to keep this as organized as possible.

Set-up: Loading and unloading went much smoother this time around thanks to being more organized about it this time around.

Dance Begins: Instantly bombarded by students requesting songs and just to check out my gear (something I didn't experience at the high school dance). Dance was held immediately after school (2:30) in the gym. Doors were left open at the start letting waaaay too much light in (thankfully all but the furthest from my booth was eventually closed).

Roughly 30min. into event: Oh I'd like to mention here that it was quite toasty in the gym, being on the conservative side it was at least 90 degrees in there (it was still 88 outside when I left at 6:30 and was easily warmer in the gym). This was the first of three times my amp overheated and cut out. I was running it at 4ohm per channel and about 80% (100% being when it starts to clip but still has room up top). Panic sat in at first finally figured out it had overheated. Placed one of those large 48" fans from the gym to blow on my amp and help air circulation (not sure if it helped). After 5 min I was good to go again.

5min Later: Amp faults out again. Knowing it's the heat this time around I decided to cut the load on the amp by dropping from 4 to 2 speakers and turning it down slightly more. Did the trick and I was right back up in another 2 or 3 min. Volume suffered greatly, but I still had an acceptable amount. Barrier was set up around my booth with roughly a 1000 sheet post it note pad for requests. It was nice to have the buffer zone, however the students must have ran through 750 sheets in an hour. There were probably 10 songs that I had around 10 requests for each.

25min until the end: I'd gotten confident that I had plenty of oomph left before I had to worry about faulting out the amp. Turned it up until I faulted again. Yep should have been happy with what I had oh well. I got going quickly again this time.

Other Notable Notes: By the end of the dance I had several students begging me to come back for their next dance. That it was the best dance they'd been too. Generally everyone was happy. I credit it to good interaction with the students more so when they came to request songs than on the mic. Overall I had a great time, survived the unexpected better this time around. I also completely saturated a total of two shirts (one during setup and one during takedown). I stayed cool during the event because I had the nice huge fan blowing solely on me and my equipment. Also snapped some quick pictures, I'll try to get them up as soon as possible (they're pretty rough, basketball tryouts were being held as soon as I could get my gear out).


Anyone have any temperature tips or guidelines? Thanks in advance all
 
I would get another amp ASAP. I checked your posts and you mentioned you are using a GEM Sound amp. I would not run the amp that hard and a Behringer EP2500 is relatively cheap and it's basically a copy of QSC RMX series amps. Having 2 amps will let you run your system without having to push it hard. And if one fails you at least have another one and no time outs to let the amp cool down, remember a very important thing is having a backup.

Other than that you let the kids have fun congrats!!!
 
Yep, I'm slowly learning the you get what you pay for thing. It's scary to think that I bought better/more stuff than I was originally thinking about. Some more amps will be on my grocery list once I get another gig or two under my belt and make sure I'm in this for sure. I'd like to get an American Audio VLP 1500, use the Gem Sound as a backup, and also purchase an American Audio V4000 Plus to push a pair of subs.
 
QSC....='s 6 YEARS OF WARRANTY.

Easily obtainable, a bit heavy, reliable as hell, great bang for the buck.

I've heard of the American Audio amps before, but have never seen one.
Local store can special order one, or i could walk over to the 20 or so QSC'S
that are in STOCK.

Somethings to think about.
 
Z....

Take my advice. Buy a better brand, even if its used man....QSC, Crown, Behringer 2500 is also a decent amp.

Also, was the big ass fan on the same circuit as your amp? How about your lighting? Power conditioner?
Some of that over heating may have been caused by stress on the circuit even though the circuit wasn't breaking. Dig?

You are well on your way man. You've got a pretty acute sense of trouble shooting and good direction for your business. Keep your ears open to good deals on used gear if you are tight on cash. I don't even recommend Gem brand for a backup. But its serving you for now.

Read up on this forum and get educated on brands.
Seek advice often and don't forget to lay your budget out.
We're happy to help spend your money the most efficient way.
It makes us goosey when we hear a budget and somebody wants us to build a system based on it. Its a challenge and we'll rise to it anytime you need.

thanks for sharing your thoughtful and thorough story with us. We've all been there.
 
Z! Glad to hear the kids were happy. The amp is the heart of the sytem and as stated above keep an eye out for a used QSC, Samson or Crown. A good budget amp that I ran for years with no problem was a Samson S1000. This amp would rock under all types of condition and it's really inexpensive. Keep up the good work.
 
Z! Glad to hear the kids were happy. The amp is the heart of the sytem and as stated above keep an eye out for a used QSC, Samson or Crown. A good budget amp that I ran for years with no problem was a Samson S1000. This amp would rock under all types of condition and it's really inexpensive. Keep up the good work.

Yes, in this situation, I'd go for Samson too.....totally forgot about that one.
I've got an incredible dealer for you if you don't have one.
 
Yes, in this situation, I'd go for Samson too.....totally forgot about that one.
I've got an incredible dealer for you if you don't have one.

I'd actually recommend staying away from samson. If you are on a tight budget, buy used, but keep it QSC or Crown. In terms of reliability, you can't beat them. I got a QSC MX-700 from a club that closed down for $100. Its probably at least 10 years old, but runs flawlessly. I had it checked out and some sodder's redone when I bought it, but other then that i've had no issues. I even ran it in 90 degrees just under clipping for about 2 hours. Can't really beat that:sqwink:
 
Thanks all. You've all put it very politely that I have some things to learn and made a mistake with my current amp. Glad I'm at ODJT and not some of these other boards, could've been scary. I've already begun my search for a new amp, though it'll probably be around the new year before I purchase. I'll be sure to bounce some thoughts off you guys. I'm going to trust all of the great folks here at ODJT to keep me from making further purchasing blunders. Thanks again all.
 
I'd actually recommend staying away from samson. If you are on a tight budget, buy used, but keep it QSC or Crown. In terms of reliability, you can't beat them. I got a QSC MX-700 from a club that closed down for $100. Its probably at least 10 years old, but runs flawlessly. I had it checked out and some sodder's redone when I bought it, but other then that i've had no issues. I even ran it in 90 degrees just under clipping for about 2 hours. Can't really beat that:sqwink:

Me too....I'm just saying he could get a new Samson OR a used QSC/Crown.
Have you used Samson?
A very well know installer company in Nashville uses tons and tons of Samson in their installs and rentals. They swear by them. I would like to sell my Crown CE2000 and get into a Samson replacement to be quite honest.....
 
Ahh.... reading your review brought back fond memories of the old middle school dances of bygone days. Thank you for the smile, my friend. :)

Gosh, I'd get several sheets of paper from the students with countless requests. They'd made it up during class, I figgered. But that's OK because they were so happy to be having a dance with a new DJ who played music they liked.

I was set up on a riser type of stage... 2 feet above the main floor. Once I got all loaded in I'd swipe a couple of chairs and set 'em in front of the stage steps to keep the students off the stage. It worked.

If it's any consolation, ol' Wolfster started out with a pair of GemSound amps. They came from Radio Shack but were made by GemSound. I rocked many a middle school dance with 'em over the years. They were underpowered for school dances and I had to put a fan on 'em. But they held up long enough for me to replace 'em. I moved one on eBay. Shirl's son has the other for his living room stereo. It's still working.

QSC and Crown are decent amps but they're pricey. We've had perfect service from these Carvin DCM amps over the years. And we've pushed the heck out of 'em, too. Sweltering heat with the summer sun beating down, all night long with the bass rattling the walls... these amps just keep on working. And they run cool. You can pay a lot more money for a little more amp.

If you prefer not to buy new you can find 'em used sometimes at eBay. Do a search for Carvin, narrow it down to pro sound and see what you come up with.

This may seen nuts but I'll toss it out for comment: Get a pair of dual 15" cabinets and use 'em for your lows at the school dances. These things will seriously rattle the walls with thump. Feed 'em with a little amp headroom and you're all set. :)

Thoughts?
 
I always. always carry my own fan, I don't need it for my gear, but I need it for me.... It will REALLY be worth it. I have a 12' fan that sits behind me...


and like everyone else, QSC or Crown
 
Thanks Fred.
Glad to hear someone else has used the fantastic brand that is Gem Sound. Knew it wasn't the greatest amp, but the website I bought it from (to remain unnamed, until someone asks at least) claimed it to have a peak rating of 3000watts. Figured it would run about half of that continuous (website didn't give additional info). It's really an interesting package that the amp came in. It says 3000watt power amplifier and also has "1400 watt total peak power" on it. Just checked the Gem Sound website and it claims just over 500RMS per channel at 4ohm. Actually I guess I really can't complain too much, haven't had any problems with it in temperature controlled venues.

Checked out the Carvin amps. The price is right. The DCM2570 is probably at the peak of my price range (about $700) and has about twice the RMS rating as the American Audio amp I was looking at for the same price. Gots plenty of research to do this time around. Looked at QSC, Peavey, Crown, and Samson some.

Hadn't thought about the dual 15" cabs for the bass. Interesting idea, would probably look more impressive than just a pair of 18" subs and about the same price (maybe, seems like it from what I've looked at). I really need to add some good low end to my system (wouldn't have to push the Gem amp as hard to try and make up for it). Think I could drop from 4 to 2 full range 15" cabs if I did so? If so could I forget the speaker stands and just throw the full range cabs on top? It'd sure quicken my setup time.
 
I don't see why not. It will be easy to go to a bi-amped system with the gear you already have. Carvin offers a very nice active crossover ~ the XC3000 for just $270.00. We are quite pleased with this unit. :)

We feed the dually 15s with a DCM2500 stereo. When using the 18s, it's bridged. It's 'way overpowered but we're careful with it. With that much headroom power at your fingertips, you've gotta be careful, lol.

If you set up for bi-amped sound, you can still use the GemSound amp for the mid-highs. It won't be running as hard and you won't have the heat issues. All you'll need is a beefy amp for the lows. And your overall tone will be much better.

To be honest, we only load the dually 15s when we're gonna be doing a rockin' dance party show. We tri-amp the rig then. But for most gigs, we bi-amp with the dually 10s as tops and one or both of the 18" sub cabs. The subs are used for warmth moreso than anything else. The dually 15s will give you that wall-rattling thump. The 18s will give you the rumble.

If you have 4 top cabs, all the better. You may use 2 of 'em for your main PA rig and the others for side fill when needed. As mid-high tops, the GemSound amp should handle them all nicely.

500 WPC RMS @ 4 ohms is great for mid-highs. You'll have plenty of headroom and the amp will run cool.

Thoughts?
 
As of now I like the DCM2500 to push a pair of dual 15" cabs.

Haven't looked into which duals to go with yet. From what I've heard Peavey is about as durable as they come. Therefore, I'm leaning towards a pair of PV215s or TLS6X's, more so toward the PV215's.

Hadn't checked out crossovers any.

I'm starting to really warm up to the idea of using a pair of dual 15" full range cabs for my low end. It'll be great to have the option to use them as either for low end or full range. Seems to be a more logical step in my quest/urge to acquire more stuff.

You're right about the GemSound amp being able to handle the mid and top with a beefy amp to handle the lows. First gig I used it at I ran it near full tilt for 3.5 hours with no problems, never knew room temperature could make such a difference, roughly 75degrees versus about 90 (I assume it's more of an issue with the lesser quality amps).
 
I use dual 15's and a sub.
The brand is Sonic.
They have lasted me 10 solid years and I've reconed one time.

With that being said, I still prefer an 18" sub.

There is something about sound dynamics that prevents a dual 15" cab from really responding properly with the low range because its in the same air space as the mid. I don't know if thats true or not, but they use the word "quasi 3-way." Definition of "quasi" is "having some resemblance"....Doesn't sound that great to me....

Also, your horn will set eye level. It should be off the ground, say, the height of a sub underneath.

Dig?

Maybe some audiophiles could either chime in or put me in my place. For now, I have my crossover set 100hz. Everything between 40hz and 100 hz goes to my 18. The rest goes up top and the dual 15 has a built in crossover to deliver the split point between mids and hi's.

I don't want to get in a brand war, but Peavey to my ears isn't quite as good as the MRX or SRX series JBL. I like my Sonics, but I can't tell you a thing about the quality of their newer stuff. The older stuff seems to work great for me.

I don't care what brand you go with, but spend the extra money for the neodymium magnets. It will make your load in/out much more pleasant.

Either way, I'm wondering how soon you are going to blow your original budget.
 
I have some TLS Peaveys and they sound kind of "thin." They're "ok" and are good for starting out.


The SP-2s that I have are "fuller" sounding and have the "Black Widow" speakers in them.

And yes they are indestructable. The SP2s that I have are "SP2-A's" that I bought used and they are still cranking hard.
 
I'm thinking as soon as I break even I'll dip back down into the red.

Sounds like a sound business strategy right?

Actually right now I have just enough gear to get by, I'd like to have a little more, however space is limited in my mid-sized SUV. I'm doing good to squeeze (4) 15" cabs, stands, truss, lights, amp, mixer, laptop, and all the various other things that somehow really manage to add up.

Now actaully taking that into consideration it would probably be most practical to go with one 18" sub as that may be all I have room for. I really would like the look of larger stuff, but that would force me to pursue a trailer (something I'd like to put off a little later). I really think it'd look cool to add about 4 18"s to the setup. However, that takes up room and adds to set-up time. Still weighing out options and think it might be possible to squeeze a pair of dual 15" inside.
 
Can you remove the passenger seating from your vehicle? Reason I ask... it would make a lot more room for equipment. We use a Chevy Astro cargo van to haul the gear. When we're just goin' someplace, we'll take Shirl's Caravan.

Just a note on doing school dances ~ you need a lot of chest-pounding thump to keep the pups happy. This can be done with a pair of dually 15s or a dually 18 cab. If you plan to bi-amp with your existing 15" tops, a dually 18 may be just the ticket. Set the tops on stands and the sub cab on the stage riser or floor.

My experience: We don't load the dually 15s much anymore. We avoid youth-oriented shows at all costs and haven't been booked for a wall-rattling, dancefloor thumping show in a while. We have it in reserve if we need it... just haven't needed it lately.

If you're gonna market to school dances, a pair of dually 15s and your existing tops will be sufficient for your needs. Fed with a DCM2500 in stereo, these things will do some serious thumping. Should you wish to add a sub cabinet later, there's always that option.

I do suggest bi-amping with an active crossover and 2/3 octave EQ. A compressor/limiter should also be in the future. These things will give you complete control over your sound. We don't run any cabinets full range. It's all bi-amped or tri-amped.

Our dually 15s are the older Carvin 1562 Club cabs. They've been superseded by the LS2153, a "quasi 3-way" system. One 15" driver is open for the lows. The other 15" is crossed over for mid-lows. I've not worked with this scenario and can't offer a review. Seems to me it's defeating the purpose.

Peavey makes a good workhorse cabinet. But do the research. Compare specs ~ especially the sensitivity ratings ~ and decide for yourself.