Wireless mics - your opinion please

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ittigger said:
Well .. a receiver 'receives' and by law, it has to accept any and all communications on said frequency - so theoretically, it should receive both. If you have one of these units, you could easily test this. You potentially might see 1 overpower (block) the other from being able to communicate / transmit clearly.
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Neither one will work because a receiver can only demodulate one signal at a time, and the two signals will cancel each other out at the receiving end, This is true no matter what brand or product you are using. A dual or quad receiver is so named because it has two or four discreet receivers built into a single chassis

Rick,
If the GTD mics have been working well for sometime (even in the 600MHz range) then the issue may be caused by your own mics or other equipment. Have you changed or added anything lately? Added any other wireless equipment (not microphones) nearby?

Some background:
A device need not be on the same channel to cause interference. The first mic you turn on has in addition to it's nominal freq.spike - a series of upper and lower harmonics which will also spike (to a lesser strength). When you add a second mic it behaves the same way - AND in addition the two transmitters will also interact with each other to create additional multiple order inter modulation products. This condition accelerates with each additional transmitter because the phenomena is not linear - it's logarithmic. It's not enough to simply add a mic on a different channel - you have to choose each time a channel that will not land on any significant byproduct of the full deployment (all gear in use.) This is essentially what a mic receiver is trying to do when in "scan" mode - so it's important to leave each previously set transmitter "ON" while scanning for the next device.

About a third of what some wireless mics used in the 600 MHz band is still okay to use. For example, a Shure QLXD L50 can be reconfigured as L50A to be in compliance. Another third of the 600Mhz now requires a license, and the remainder is completely off limits. If you have the ability to set the mics consistently below 635Mhz then at least do that.. Your systems are low power and should perform just fine when indoors. It's outdoors that you will be exposed to other high power sources (if any) that might interfere.

Back to the mics:
Antenna orientation matters a great deal. Whip antennas should be vertical, however - if your users tend to hold the mic horizontal try putting one antenna at 45 deg. For a body pack - try to get the antenna exposed and on the side of the body facing the receiver. Try each mic individually with the other transmitter turned off - then compare that performance to what happens when BOTH are turned on. Watch for other wireless devices - such as those brought by videographers and caterers. Re-scan if necessary.

Preventing and dealing with issues:
You can easily start by checking your mics against known RF sources in your area. Try using Shure's free RF Frequency finder and Wireless Workbench software to find the best available frequencies for your location.

I would not buy into the SLX product unless you find a steal on used gear. It's discontinued for a reason. (Used gear, unfortunately has nearly doubled in price recently because of supply chain issues.) QLXD has the added benefit of network setup. If you connect multiple receivers to a hub you can do a system scan that coordinates all receivers simultaneously to clear and compatible frequencies.

With bargain mics avoid the common mistake of thinking that two mics with a different band identifier (such as H8, H6, or J10, etc.) would not interfere with each other. These designations are often more like Bingo cards - operating with the same set of numbers but simply shuffling them in a different arrangement.
 
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Proformance said:
Neither one will work because a receiver can only demodulate one signal at a time, and the two signals will cancel each other out at the receiving end, This is true no matter what brand or product you are using. A dual or quad receiver is so named because it has two or four discreet receivers built into a single chassis

Rick,
If the GTD mics have been working well for sometime (even in the 600MHz range) then the issue may be caused by your own mics or other equipment. Have you changed or added anything lately? Added any other wireless equipment (not microphones) nearby?

Some background:
A device need not be on the same channel to cause interference. The first mic you turn on has in addition to it's nominal freq.spike - a series of upper and lower harmonics which will also spike (to a lesser strength). When you add a second mic it behaves the same way - AND in addition the two transmitters will also interact with each other to create additional multiple order inter modulation products. This condition accelerates with each additional transmitter because the phenomena is not linear - it's logarithmic. It's not enough to simply add a mic on a different channel - you have to choose each time a channel that will not land on any significant byproduct of the full deployment (all gear in use.) This is essentially what a mic receiver is trying to do when in "scan" mode - so it's important to leave each previously set transmitter "ON" while scanning for the next device.

About a third of what some wireless mics used in the 600 MHz band is still okay to use. For example, a Shure QLXD L50 can be reconfigured as L50A to be in compliance. Another third of the 600Mhz now requires a license, and the remainder is completely off limits. If you have the ability to set the mics consistently below 635Mhz then at least do that.. Your systems are low power and should perform just fine when indoors. It's outdoors that you will be exposed to other high power sources (if any) that might interfere.

Back to the mics:
Antenna orientation matters a great deal. Whip antennas should be vertical, however - if your users tend to hold the mic horizontal try putting one antenna at 45 deg. For a body pack - try to get the antenna exposed and on the side of the body facing the receiver. Try each mic individually with the other transmitter turned off - then compare that performance to what happens when BOTH are turned on. Watch for other wireless devices - such as those brought by videographers and caterers. Re-scan if necessary.

Preventing and dealing with issues:
You can easily start by checking your mics against known RF sources in your area. Try using Shure's free RF Frequency finder and Wireless Workbench software to find the best available frequencies for your location.

I would not buy into the SLX product unless you find a steal on used gear. It's discontinued for a reason. (Used gear, unfortunately has nearly doubled in price recently because of supply chain issues.) QLXD has the added benefit of network setup. If you connect multiple receivers to a hub you can do a system scan that coordinates all receivers simultaneously to clear and compatible frequencies.

With bargain mics avoid the common mistake of thinking that two mics with a different band identifier (such as H8, H6, or J10, etc.) would not interfere with each other. These designations are often more like Bingo cards - operating with the same set of numbers but simply shuffling them in a different arrangement.
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There’s a new slxd… about the same as the qlxd minus a few encryption capabilities and a couple of other small things that the typical mobile DJ won’t use. It also comes in a dual receiver option
 
For the other one that Taso wasn't talking about I figured both mics won't work at the same time due to needing 2 separate channels so both the laviler and handheld will work at the same time. I figured it out because we have the BLX dual wireless mic system and each mic has to be set to different channels correctly or they won't work. Thus what Taso said.
 
djtaso said:
There’s a new slxd… about the same as the qlxd minus a few encryption capabilities and a couple of other small things that the typical mobile DJ won’t use. It also comes in a dual receiver option
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A new SLXD system will cost the same a used QLXD. (Anyone using more than 2 mics at a time should really move to at least QLXD and up their RF skills because that's really the only way to get consistently good results.)

The issues are not really the mics it's whether or not the user can or even wants to effectively manage RF frequencies. If not, then the better choices are BLX, PGXD, in their various incarnations. Users can lookup their address on SWFF and get recommended Group/Channels with very decent results.

The thing to know is that that ALL your mics in a given band Identifier be set to the SAME group, and THEN different channels. When mixing mics with different band identifiers always verify the actual frequencies to avoid conflicts between systems.

Another important factor is to upgrade the system before upgrading the mics. On a cheap system cheap mics may sound every bit as good as high end mics because the system itself holds the leash on how much "good" you can achieve. I'm still surprised anyone likes the sound of a GTD mic but that being the case I would not spend money on new mics until I had ruled out simple RF errors in my current setup. If good RF management rather than 600MHz conflict is the real issue - then it will be even more frustrating if the same problems persist after spending a boat-load of cash.
 
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djtaso said:
There’s a new slxd… about the same as the qlxd minus a few encryption capabilities and a couple of other small things that the typical mobile DJ won’t use. It also comes in a dual receiver option
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I can't find it anywhere. If you have a link URL that would be great.
 
rickryan.com said:
I can't find it anywhere. If you have a link URL that would be great.
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Shure SLXD Microphone System

The retail price is $699.00 and any Shure dealer can get them for you, Guitar Center/ZzSounds, Sweetwater, B&H Photo, IDJNow, etc.

You might also consider the discontinued ULXP systems which can be found used for less than half the price. The G3 and J1 bands operate in the same frequency space as the SLXD and QLXD bands, but are an analog version with much of the same features and versatility including manual frequency selection if desired. I've operated up to 8 ULXP systems simultaneously in those bands without issue. (Used to own 32 channels but downsized to just 8 ULXP along with another 10 QLXD.)

I just did a panel discussion last week (6 hours long) using 8 QLXD lavs on stage without issue at a major University city campus with a very crowded frequency spectrum. The University's Director of Media made my work substantially easier when he handed me a list of frequencies to manually enter and use, along with a few backup frequencies, just in case. He has ALL of the University systems and other potentially interfering city-wide RF sources in his Wireless Workbench profile - making it a snap to spit out a list of clear channels for 8 more QLXD.

If you are operating your own venue - this is the level of RF management you want to be able to provide for yourself - and the tools are literally free. You can even get a handheld RF scanner for about $250 and add the indoor and outdoor profiles of your venue to the software for even better results.

When you use the RF tools available and properly plan your frequency selection FOR EACH LOCATION and event that you are working - the specific mic you use won't mater all that much. Before you toss a mic you like - check that the issue is truly a frequency issue that cannot be reconciled. You're in a kind of remote location which may yet to be impacted very much by the 600MHz take-over.
 
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Proformance said:
Shure SLXD Microphone System

The retail price is $699.00 and any Shure dealer can get them for you, Guitar Center/ZzSounds, Sweetwater, B&H Photo, IDJNow, etc.

You might also consider the discontinued ULXP systems which can be found used for less than half the price. The G3 and J1 bands operate in the same frequency space as the SLXD and QLXD bands, but are an analog version with much of the same features and versatility including manual frequency selection if desired. I've operated up to 8 ULXP systems simultaneously in those bands without issue. (Used to own 32 channels but downsized to just 8 ULXP along with another 10 QLXD.)

I just did a panel discussion last week (6 hours long) using 8 QLXD lavs on stage without issue at a major University city campus with a very crowded frequency spectrum. The University's Director of Media made my work substantially easier when he handed me a list of frequencies to manually enter and use, along with a few backup frequencies, just in case. He has ALL of the University systems and other potentially interfering city-wide RF sources in his Wireless Workbench profile - making it a snap to spit out a list of clear channels for 8 more QLXD.

If you are operating your own venue - this is the level of RF management you want to be able to provide for yourself - and the tools are literally free. You can even get a handheld RF scanner for about $250 and add the indoor and outdoor profiles of your venue to the software for even better results.

When you use the RF tools available and properly plan your frequency selection FOR EACH LOCATION and event that you are working - the specific mic you use won't mater all that much. Before you toss a mic you like - check that the issue is truly a frequency issue that cannot be reconciled. You're in a kind of remote location which may yet to be impacted very much by the 600MHz take-over.
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That link shows $949.
 
Let me suggest check out KPODJ and see what they say. Sign up for VIP so you don't pay the regular price. Depending on what you buy you can get a nice discount. I've been dealing with them for many years. That's where I bought the Shure BLX dual wireless mics and paid $450 cash and that was it brand new. The regular price if I'm correct was $549. The price might have gone up a bit due to the Pandemic.
 
I don't understand this whole dual thing. You buy two units and they come with rack hardware to be mounted side by side.

If you are okay with dropouts, then buy a cheaper system. That's your call.

If you want to offer a reliable mic solution then you are going to have to spend more $$. From Shure, QLXD or ULXD is the only thing I would be purchasing. SLXD does not offer the same RF robustness as QLXD.

Since this is for a wedding ceremony where you don't get to redo it, why would anyone take a chance, and not offer a higher-end product/service? I can guarantee you won't care how much it cost when the guests don't hear their vowels. Saving $400-600 means nothing if it is not reliable.

This purchase should not be taken lightly, even if it is heavy on the wallet.

Also, don't be afraid to buy QLDD used. These are super solid devices and the transmitters are even made out of metal, not plastic.
Also, having the Shure rechargeable battery means never buying AA batteries again!
 
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BlueLineDJ said:
That link shows $949.
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So, look and shop elsewhere.
Wow... hard to conceive the level of lazy expectation in this thread.

Ya know, the phrase: "you get what you pay for" is completely wrong. The reality is: "you get what you're willing to work for."
 
rickryan.com said:
That is a single-channel unit and the price is $949.
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Chances are high that your GTD mics are working just fine and you are only poorly managing the frequencies. Possibly, GTD doesn't provide the level of features you need to properly manage frequencies. IDK. That's the trade-off when buying cheap gear - you are forced to operate without all the tools necessary for trouble-free operation.

The spectrum is pretty crowded. A lot of places I go in the city I have to enter specific frequencies manually because the manufactured preset groups and channels are just no longer effective choices. I've spent well over $15,000.00 in the last two years on wireless mics - so, as much as I like a bargain (..and I believe I gotten many) I probably can't relate to the idea of finding a Dollar Store solution to this problem.
 
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TES3S said:
SLXD does not offer the same RF robustness as QLXD.
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They are the same in that regard, but the typical user of SLXD is less likely to have a proper antenna deployment or to properly account for cable, reflections, and other types of signal loss.

The product experience is commensurate with the user knowledge base, so it's not fair to blame the product. As you move down the ladder into cheaper products, the experience is often tempered by a parallel decline in user knowledge.

A local school theater set aside a pile of their cheap Amazon.com headset mics which they noted as "broken." Having checked them out - I foud all of them to be working normally. However, they were simultaneously using up to 19 mics in the PGX, BLX, PGXD class on randomly dispersed groups and frequencies with no consideration at all for how that looks in the spectrum. They mistakenly blamed the frequent dropouts they were experiencing on "cheap headsets" when in reality they were swimming in a sea of inter modulation distortion.
 
^^They (SLXD and QLXD) are not the same in that regard. If they were, I would have purchased many of them last year. After speaking with several Shure engineers, they told me, that not only are there fewer frequencies to scan, but the quality of the transmitter and receiver is not going to be in the same league and QLXD will always give better performance and will have fewer dropouts. I didn't want to take any chances after the bad luck I had with the normal SLX and PGX.

SLXD is just the digital version of the SLX.
 
TES3S said:
^^They (SLXD and QLXD) are not the same in that regard. If they were, I would have purchased many of them last year. After speaking with several Shure engineers, they told me, that not only are there fewer frequencies to scan, but the quality of the transmitter and receiver is not going to be in the same league and QLXD will always give better performance and will have fewer dropouts. I didn't want to take any chances after the bad luck I had with the normal SLX and PGX.

SLXD is just the digital version of the SLX.
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I can confirm the aspect of fewer frequencies. I was gonna buy slxd for a secondary system, but after lots of research and seeing limitations in frequencies I’m holding off and buying additional qlxd receivers instead.
 
TES3S said:
^^They (SLXD and QLXD) are not the same in that regard. If they were, I would have purchased many of them last year. After speaking with several Shure engineers, they told me, that not only are there fewer frequencies to scan, but the quality of the transmitter and receiver is not going to be in the same league and QLXD will always give better performance and will have fewer dropouts. I didn't want to take any chances after the bad luck I had with the normal SLX and PGX.
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You've misunderstood what you were told.
The SLXD has fewer features, built for less experienced users. The chassis is also less expensive to build for both pieces of the system.
The radio circuits are the same. The expanded features of QLXD allow you to do more and tweak more - the difference is quantitative not qualitative.
 
djtaso said:
I can confirm the aspect of fewer frequencies. I was gonna buy slxd for a secondary system, but after lots of research and seeing limitations in frequencies I’m holding off and buying additional qlxd receivers instead.
Click to expand...
That's not necessarily going to make the difference. You still have to apply good RF management everywhere you play. If the only thing you are doing is using the scan function - time and circumstance will catch up with you eventually.
SLXD can deploy fewer frequencies because it's intended for houses of worship, and other fixed installations.
QLXD benefits high density environments like Universities, major city theatrical arts, and touring.
ULXD adds networking across an enterprise and Dante'
 
Proformance said:
That's not necessarily going to make the difference. You still have to apply good RF management everywhere you play. If the only thing you are doing is using the scan function - time and circumstance will catch up with you eventually.
SLXD can deploy fewer frequencies because it's intended for houses of worship, and other fixed installations.
QLXD benefits high density environments like Universities, major city theatrical arts, and touring.
ULXD adds networking across an enterprise and Dante'
Click to expand...
Admittedly I do use the scan feature which is why I prefer the comfort of the expanded range
 
Shure told me the radio RF circuits were not the same. I am not going to argue with you when I spoke to multiple people at Shure.
 
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djtaso said:
Admittedly I do use the scan feature which is why I prefer the comfort of the expanded range
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The range is the same. For example, QLXD G50 476-493MHz and SLXD G53 476-493MHz

What differs is that in any group QLXD squeezes the channels closer together (~0.5MHz versus 1.0MHz for SLXD). That's not improving your reception - it's allowing more mics to potentially operate simultaneously within the same system. For the SLX user (who typically uses 4 or fewer mics simultaneously, the increased separation is realized as fewer IMD issues. QLXD is right up against the limit of how closely assigned the mics can be and still potentially work without complication - while SLXD keeps a wider birth for less experienced users.

The idea that SLX gives you only 18 channels in a given group where QLXD might list 32 can't be relied upon because that information varies by location and will change dramatically simply by moving as little as 8 miles across town. You can go from 32 or 18 down to 6 in a heartbeat with either system.

For a DJ like Rick who is going to play the same venue over and over SLX is a far more economical and functional choice than QLXD. Unless he starts hosting Press Conferences SLXD already provides the best of what QLXD could offer his present situation, AND it is also available in a dual receiver model which he seems to like.

SLXD is also NOT simply a digital version of SLX. It's a new product and the "S" model designates it's intended user base. The "legacy" of this product is it's intended market not it's manufacture. It's meant to serve small venues.
 
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