Thousand Oaks Country Bar shooting

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The problem is NOT the guns. The problem is people’s willingness... or even a desire to kill as many people as possible. There seems to be more of these people than ever before. I wish I knew what causes these people to become monsters, but I only have my own hypothesis.

We had guns 50-60 years ago, but I don’t remember hearing of ANY mass shootings. I grew up with guns. My dad had several in the house... unsecured. My brother and I each had our own rifles at the age of 11. We had lots of physical fights that he ALWAYS WON (he was 3 years older), but I never even considered shooting him.[emoji1] By the time I was 16 I could have easily kicked his @ss, but he was long gone by then.

Oh but I digress... Why weren’t there more mass shootings in those days, when guns were just as readily available and there were NO background checks required to get a gun? The answer is; PEOPLE changed. Are there more homicidal maniacs in the country today? Don’t know. Not sure if there are any statistics or any way to know the answer to that. So what change has occurred in this country over the last 30-40 years that might explain this desire on the part of some people to kill as many people as they can? Is it the violence they see on TV or in the movies? Are kids simply jaded by seeing people killed in these forms of media? I don’t think so. When I was young, Marshal Dillon killed a dude in the opening of every show, every Saturday night.[emoji1] All the Westerns were somewhat violent. Yes... shows and movies became even more violent and more graphic since, but I have my doubts about any of that being the major cause, though it could be a contributor.

One thing we DO know... There has been a decline in Christian values... even a decline in the number of people who identify themselves as Christians. There has been a concerted effort on the part of a certain political faction to minimize the role of Christianity in our schools, in our government, and in our everyday lives. Fewer kids than ever are going to church and are not learning about the Holy Bible. Of course this is just a hypothesis, but let me ask this question... How many of the mass shooters in the last 30 years were identified as born-again Christians?
 
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My nephew was doing some research on gun deaths expecting to find a sharp increase in recent years and in fact found just the opposite. Apparently gun deaths just didn't receive significant news coverage decades ago. I don't know if his research compared the frequency of mass shootings (let alone how they are defined universally). I will ask him the next time I talk to him. BTW, this guy is no slouch when it comes to research. He holds a few patents and will soon start his PhD studies.
 
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Closing every venue where tragedy happens is not the solution. That would mean closing all schools, banks, churches, movie theaters, anywhere a shooting happens. In a country where there are literally millions of guns, there is no way to round them all up. The only people that will willingly give them up is law abiding citizens. Does anyone really think a criminal will give up there weapons? Even in country's where it's the death penalty for having a firearm is illegal, I can guaranty you there are still plenty of firearms hidden. Even if you say it the death penalty, it wouldn't matter to someone willing to commit suicide the death penalty wouldn't matter.
 
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Only when real consequence for such horrific behavior receives as much attention and press and ignornet presence and DISDAIN as politicizing tragedy for personal, selfish gain and the embracing of abhorrence seems to, will we see reduction of theses horrific actions.

It is the soul, the character, the morality of the human beings that needs correction and redress...not the "stuff" or the tangible things they use to inflict their heinous selfishness.

The precipice is before us, we can choose.

Stepping off ODJT soapbox.jpg
 
oldschool said:
In a country where there are literally millions of guns, there is no way to round them all up. The only people that will willingly give them up is law abiding citizens. Does anyone really think a criminal will give up there weapons? Even in country's where it's the death penalty for having a firearm is illegal, I can guaranty you there are still plenty of firearms hidden. Even if you say it the death penalty, it wouldn't matter to someone willing to commit suicide the death penalty wouldn't matter.
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With the exception of a few far left leaning nuts (and i'm left myself) there is no one wanting to round up guns. Most are looking for sensible responsible ownership
 
Jeff Romard said:
With the exception of a few far left leaning nuts (and i'm left myself) there is no one wanting to round up guns. Most are looking for sensible responsible ownership
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We already have laws and background checks. A lot of these nuts did pass a background check. Most people are responsible gun owners. There are millions of gun owners that never cause harm to others. Taking away guns to try to stop crazy people from killing lots of people will never work. They just drive a truck into a bunch of people, witch sadly has already been done. Crazy people will find a way.
 
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oldschool said:
We already have laws and background checks. A lot of these nuts did pass a background check. Most people are responsible gun owners. There are millions of gun owners that never cause harm to others. Taking away guns to try to stop crazy people from killing lots of people will never work. They just drive a truck into a bunch of people, witch sadly has already been done. Crazy people will find a way.
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I agree taking away guns won't solve the problem but not allowing known crazy people to have one will. Some states are very stringent others not so much
 
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Jeff Romard said:
I agree taking away guns won't solve the problem but not allowing known crazy people to have one will. Some states are very stringent others not so much
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The problem is figuring out who’s crazy and who is not. When I was working for the state, I sat on a committee that drafted legislation related to such matters as reporting to the Federal Government and background checks for gun ownership. Having someone declared mentally incompetent is (thankfully) very difficult unless they have already committed some act that makes it obvious. Most of these mass shooters had no previous records, so they had not been declared to be mentally incompetent or dangerous to society. Then there’s the issue of when a person is no longer crazy. A person who has been declared incompetent, must by law, have a process by which they can be declared competent once more... It’s not a case of once you’re declared crazy, you’re crazy forever (even if you probably really are). The government (for the most part) goes to great lengths to protect people’s constitutional rights, so they are more likely to err on the side of letting a crazy person buy a gun than to deny someone their constitutional right to own one.
 
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DJ Bobcat said:
The problem is figuring out who’s crazy and who is not.
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Well, I'm sure the FBI has already downloaded our user base as a place to start ... :)
 
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DJ Bobcat said:
The problem is figuring out who’s crazy and who is not. When I was working for the state, I sat on a committee that drafted legislation related to such matters as reporting to the Federal Government and background checks for gun ownership. Having someone declared mentally incompetent is (thankfully) very difficult unless they have already committed some act that makes it obvious. Most of these mass shooters had no previous records, so they had not been declared to be mentally incompetent or dangerous to society. Then there’s the issue of when a person is no longer crazy. A person who has been declared incompetent, must by law, have a process by which they can be declared competent once more... It’s not a case of once you’re declared crazy, you’re crazy forever (even if you probably really are). The government (for the most part) goes to great lengths to protect people’s constitutional rights, so they are more likely to err on the side of letting a crazy person buy a gun than to deny someone their constitutional right to own one.
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I agree again it's difficult to tell but the most recent ones all had a history of mental health issues....Did they just fall between the cracks...


Is the second amendment more important that Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness?
 
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Jeff Romard said:
I agree again it's difficult to tell but the most recent ones all had a history of mental health issues....Did they just fall between the cracks...


Is the second amendment more important that Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness?
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The 2nd Amendment is a constitutional right. Start messing with the Constitution and there will be other changes following that the people will NOT like. To some, happiness is bearing the arms they were given the right to bear.
 
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Tow words, Black powder. Black powder guns are not considered fire arms. You can get a six shooter revolver that will kill just as many as a regular six shooter. Your limited to just six shots, but you can carry more then one revolver and you have more shots.
Even fellons can own black powder guns legally.
 
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Jeff Romard said:
Is the second amendment more important that Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness?
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It's one of the safeguards for attaining them ..
 
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Jeff Romard said:
Is the second amendment more important that Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness?
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Not more important but, definitely not unimportant.

The right to bear arms is of paramount importance because it prevents the government, any subsequent government nor outside forces from forcibly denying our inalienable God given rights to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness and purposefully provides Americans the UNDENIABLE means to protect those rights.

Those inalienable rights were so important that they are directly referenced in the preamble to our Declaration of Independence, PROMINENTLY reiterated in the FIRST PARAGRAPH of our Constitution (a/k/a another preamble) and subsequently protected, provided for and intentionally codified, thorough compromise, consideration and intelligence, in our Bill of RIGHTS.

Seems to be a rather important bit of language to be so immediate and prominent in primary documents that establish the creation of and governance of my country. So important is the right to bear arms that it was given primacy after and ONLY after the right to religious freedom was established and declared.

It certainly was deemed important by it's mere presence, let alone it sequential position.

BTW, Jeff, what's it to you? You're not an American citizen and therefore have no such constitutional right.
 
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wifedj said:
Not more important but, definitely not unimportant.

The right to bear arms is of paramount importance because it prevents the government, any subsequent government nor outside forces from forcibly denying our inalienable God given rights to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness and purposefully provides Americans the UNDENIABLE means to protect those rights.

Those inalienable rights were so important that they are directly referenced in the preamble to our Declaration of Independence, PROMINENTLY reiterated in the FIRST PARAGRAPH of our Constitution (a/k/a another preamble) and subsequently protected, provided for and intentionally codified, thorough compromise, consideration and intelligence, in our Bill of RIGHTS.

Seems to be a rather important bit of language to be so immediate and prominent in primary documents that establish the creation of and governance of my country. So important is the right to bear arms that it was given primacy after and ONLY after the right to religious freedom was established and declared.

It certainly was deemed important by it's mere presence, let alone it sequential position.

BTW, Jeff, what's it to you? You're not an American citizen and therefore have no such constitutional right.
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Rocky Honestly it means nothing to me I'm just in on the discussion. Maybe I can provide a reasonable viewpoint from an outsider. As I mentioned before I'm not in any way anti gun

To make a point on your post let's say Trump goes rogue next week and the citizens arm up and decide to not let this happen. How do you think your .22, .45. or 12Gauge will make out against a few tanks and the Air Force?
 
ittigger said:
The 2nd Amendment is a constitutional right. Start messing with the Constitution and there will be other changes following that the people will NOT like. To some, happiness is bearing the arms they were given the right to bear.
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I see where you are coming from but the constitution was written 250 years ago long before automatic weapons were ever considered. In 1905 the speed limit was 5Mph should that have stayed the same or been updated for the times?
 
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wifedj said:
... BTW, Jeff, what's it to you? You're not an American citizen and therefore have no such constitutional right.
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All Jeff has to do is cross the border illegally, and he instantly has all the rights as any American (except perhaps the right to vote, and even that is up for debate). Actually, he might even have MORE rights![emoji1]
 
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