Stage Usage - Contract and Release?

DJ TJ

DJ Extraordinaire
Oct 20, 2013
1,725
I haven't researched this site to see if there are any entertainment specific clauses, but in addition to seeking proper legal advice as mentioned, this might give you an idea of what clauses you might like to see in any release as a place to start.

 
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DJ TJ

DJ Extraordinaire
Oct 20, 2013
1,725
I was just looking at the Wenger site. Care to post a link to the specific product just out of curiosity?

I too have to agree with the other's that say even with the proper rental house insurance, I think this is one area I would not do a bare rental to the general public and that includes charitable organizations. It would either be full service production or only rent to other qualified contractors with their own insurance (and still have your own liability release signed).
 
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adj2ent

DJ Extraordinaire
Oct 20, 2006
1,085
59
Long Island NY
Let me add irregardless of the signed release and if the renter has their own Insurance you still should have your own insurance. That’s because should there be an accident and if someone is hurt on your stage It still could filter down to you and you would have to have a lawyer which the insurance company would provide . That’s why I suggested you call your insurance company first if you plan on using the stage.
 
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DJ TJ

DJ Extraordinaire
Oct 20, 2013
1,725
Yes, most definitely. I was only mentioning to make sure that even with a renter's own insurance they should still sign your release, not to imply the release negates your need to obtain your own proper insurance.
 
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Ausumm

Day Late and a Dollar Short
Oct 21, 2008
10,236
55
Bethlehem PA
www.mikefoxx.com
you should seek legal advice, however it's been my experience that advice even from so called professionals like lawyers shouldn't always be taken as gospel.
Huh?
So you agree that you should SEEK legal advice from a professional, but but not listen to it?
 

Valerie Hicks

Moderator
Staff member
We do not rent out our staging on its own. It's always part of a production that we deliver, setup and are onsite to manage. Improperly set up by a renter could really cause you problems. Ours is a lot heavier duty stage, and frankly, has less potential for failure just the way it's built. The lightweight Wenger stages can be a nightmare for keeping safe and operational. I would think your attorney could write up a contract that for the most part will except you from liability under most circumstances. Yes, there are always exceptions, but that's what your insurance is for.
 

Valerie Hicks

Moderator
Staff member
I'll ask it again, how much money can you typically get for a stage rental like this? If it's a good-sized fee, then MAYBE I can see suffering the liability/risk.
I don't know what the smaller, lighter Wenger staging rents for, but we rent out 7 sections of 4x8 decking, on 5 36-48" bases, with stairs, railings and drape for about $650. That's the line item for the stage equip as part of a $3-4k contract. Purchase price for that stage new was around $10k (roughly).
 

scgstuff

DJ Extraordinaire
I was just looking at the Wenger site. Care to post a link to the specific product just out of curiosity?
These are the ones I have (based on product number)....

I believe this is the newer equivalent, we have the 16-24" 4'X8' platforms and the 6 panel move and store cart shown at the bottom of the page.
 
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wifedj

DJ Extraordinaire
Mar 20, 2008
1,167
WARNING SNOWFLAKES: Potential "stifling" words, offered as sarcasm, approaching....
advice even from so called professionals like lawyers shouldn't always be taken as gospel and as a result you should get multiple opinions from which you can draw your own conclusions.
[SARCASM]
Certainly and particularly when it involves issues of liability and potential legal/civil litigation ramifications, it is best to immediately discount and dismiss the experience, specialized and education based advice of professional legal counsel and undertake a fishing expedition in an ignornet forum for unvetted, specious sources mostly based on purely anecdotal, unverifiable claims and stories...that sounds BRILLIANT!
[/SARCASM]

Unless you are an attorney, as it relates to the subject circumstance, i.e. offering and production of stage rental equipment and services, suggesting that forming your own conclusions that are NOT based PRIMARILY AND PREDOMINANTLY on competent, reliable professional legal advice is COMPLETE AND UTTER BS disguised as advice or an attempt at sabotage.

DO NOT EXPOSE YOURSELF TO THE NEGATIVE FINANCIAL LIABILITY OF DETRIMENTAL RELIANCE ON DEEEEEEEJAY COUNSEL.




Shawn,

OTST, if you need any recommendation for legal counsel in the Killeen area, I would gladly ask my contacts in the Houston, Austin and surrounding areas for the names of reliable legal counsel for your situation.
 
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ittigger

Hundred Acre Industry Icon
Feb 1, 2011
12,911
Western Maryland
I've seen plenty here give advice to talk to a lawyer and make sure you're covered. Not sure why you keep on the' people are acting like lawyers here' train.

There are people here that use stages and have legally protecting contracts and insurance - and are also advising the same.
 
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wifedj

DJ Extraordinaire
Mar 20, 2008
1,167
I think all it meant was talk to a few legal professionals and get educated before moving forward - because like any other job, there are lawyers that really don't know.
At best, that is an unreliable guess and rewording of DJ TJ's expressed disdain for "so called professionals."

In context, his suggestion and posts advise that the alternative "multiple opinions" should be sought from dj forums...really, that is where you recommend Shawn get important, serious legal counsel on which to rely and draw conclusions for his business decisions and liability exposure?

You can not be serious.

I've seen plenty here give advice to talk to a lawyer and make sure you're covered. Not sure why you keep on the' people are acting like lawyers here' train.
The continued re-urging choo-choo to obtain competent legal advice is in response to not what may or may not have been correctly extrapolated but to the continued offerings and words actually written, posted, and claimed, "advice even from so called professionals like lawyers shouldn't always be taken as gospel ...get multiple opinions...draw your own conclusions". Regarding the subject liability, that is dangerous advice, at best.

Shawn has done nothing, at least to my knowledge, to deserve such asinine advice.
 
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Ausumm

Day Late and a Dollar Short
Oct 21, 2008
10,236
55
Bethlehem PA
www.mikefoxx.com
I'll ask it again, how much money can you typically get for a stage rental like this? If it's a good-sized fee, then MAYBE I can see suffering the liability/risk.
As I said, we don't rent stage.
But when you consider the liability....
as well as what you need for proper storage, delivery, setup, breakdown, and return delivery...
AND consider that renting stage is NOT a lucrative opportunity...
(we don't get any calls for "just" stage rentals)
I would think getting a ROI would be real tough.
 

ittigger

Hundred Acre Industry Icon
Feb 1, 2011
12,911
Western Maryland
The continued reurging to obtain competent legal advice is in response to not what may or may not have been correctly extrapolated but to what was actually written, posted, and claimed, "advice even from so called professionals like lawyers shouldn't always be taken as gospel and as a result you should get multiple opinions from which you can draw your own conclusions" and, regarding the subject liability, that is dangerous advice, at best.

Shawn has done nothing, at least to my knowledge, to deserve such asinine advice.
Shawn should also be aware that there are lawyers that may or may not have the appropriate information to protect him - thus talking to a few lawyers, he should be able to learn where he needs to be - and he does need and deserve this advice.
 
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steve149

Veni, Vidi, Lusi
Staff member
Sep 26, 2011
32,436
Prospect, CT
EVERYTHING has potential liability ... you mitigate it, you limit it, you insure against it. Only you can decide what tolerance you have and the associated risks. If we capitulated to ALL risks, no one would do anything (and there's risk in not doing anything too !!).
 

scgstuff

DJ Extraordinaire
Holy crap!

I didn't mean to get everyone so stirred up by asking a question. It was one of those things that dropped into my lap and I was just trying to see if anyone had experience and what they have done or used contract wise if they did. I plan to get advice from at least my insurance agent and possibly a lawyer. The school needed storage space and this was in the way now that they have an actual stage. It was offered to me at the cost of nothing other than physical labor if I could remove it from the storage location. Thought that was a great deal....free is better then cheap any day...ask Mix!

I am in no way going to refer to this thread if something does happen and say "That person on them thar inner-webs said that all I needed to do was __." I am fairly confident that in a court of law that would hold the same amount of water as a bottomless bucket. Maybe in Judge Judy's courtroom, she would at least look at it, then laugh and tell me I'm an idiot. I was just looking for opinions and experience of others.
 

wifedj

DJ Extraordinaire
Mar 20, 2008
1,167
Shawn should also be aware that there are lawyers that may or may not have the appropriate information to protect him - thus talking to a few lawyers, he should be able to learn where he needs to be - and he does need and deserve this advice.
36359
 

wifedj

DJ Extraordinaire
Mar 20, 2008
1,167
I plan to get advice from at least my insurance agent and possibly a lawyer.
An insurance agent serves two masters the insured (you) and the insurer (the policy issuing company).

These two masters often have divergent, if not opposing purposes and the insurance agent is held to a substantially lower standard of legal responsibility and, barring some special relationship (in this case a specific legal term), courts have fairly consistently refused to blame the insurance agent for the policyholder's failure to read and understand the policy, or for not providing coverage for every conceivable loss.

For all practical purposes, your attorney has fiduciary and ethical responsibilities to you and only you. Ask your chosen attorney for contractual advice before you seek coverage advice from an insurance agent/salesperson.

P.S. Continued Good Luck.
 
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