External audio interfaces / sound cards

To many ads? Support ODJT and see no ads!

sawdust123

Moderator
Staff member
Nov 10, 2006
2,276
5,165
63
Ventura County, CA
I was wondering how many people use external sound cards instead of the sound card in their controller. I use Numark DJ2GO controllers but not their audio output. Instead I use ESI UDJ6 USB audio interfaces that support 2 stereo output pairs. I was debating getting the ESI Gigaport EX that can support 4 stereo outputs. I use Virtual DJ but have never tried a 4-deck configuration with my setup. I was wondering if anyone has tried this and what your experience has been.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ittigger
I just wouldn't go there. My method is to simplify and buy the right controller from the outset.

It sounds like your real joy comes form the busy work of tinkering with this stuff rather than the actual DJ role?
 
Last edited:
I was wondering how many people use external sound cards instead of the sound card in their controller. I use Numark DJ2GO controllers but not their audio output. Instead I use ESI UDJ6 USB audio interfaces that support 2 stereo output pairs. I was debating getting the ESI Gigaport EX that can support 4 stereo outputs. I use Virtual DJ but have never tried a 4-deck configuration with my setup. I was wondering if anyone has tried this and what your experience has been.
I always used the sound card in my controllers in my primary systems. However, I had a Traktor Audio 2 DJ and a small mixer as a backup system. I don’t know if I could hear any difference between my Denon MC6000MK2 and that Traktor Audio 2 DJ?🤷‍♂️ I never had to resort to using it at an event, but it would have worked out fine, had it been necessary.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ittigger
I just wouldn't go there. My method is to simply by the right controller from the outset.

It sounds like your real joy comes form the busy work of tinkering with this stuff rather than the actual DJ role?
Well… the DJ role is fun, but there might be a few of us for whom the “tinkering with this stuff” is nearly as much fun!😂
 
  • Like
Reactions: ittigger
I like what I like. And yes, I do enjoy tinkering with a system till it is just what I want.

I am simply not a fan of all-in-one controllers. I have many reasons for this.
  • All-in-one controllers tend to be larger than I like
  • They have limited IO (e.g. 2 mics max and 2 stereo aux ins max)
  • I don't scratch so I don't need large jog wheels
  • I rarely use effects so I don't need countless buttons
  • The built-in screens (on those that have them) are generally too small for my eyes
  • I prefer to search via keyboard than via a knob
  • Single point failure risk
I am considering adding a Tascam MZ-372 mixer to my rack. That gives me seven mic inputs and 12 stereo inputs in just a 3RU unit. This gives more flexibility than I will probably ever need but more importantly frees up rack space for other stuff.
 
I like what I like. And yes, I do enjoy tinkering with a system till it is just what I want.

I am simply not a fan of all-in-one controllers. I have many reasons for this.
  • All-in-one controllers tend to be larger than I like
  • They have limited IO (e.g. 2 mics max and 2 stereo aux ins max)
  • I don't scratch so I don't need large jog wheels
  • I rarely use effects so I don't need countless buttons
  • The built-in screens (on those that have them) are generally too small for my eyes
  • I prefer to search via keyboard than via a knob
  • Single point failure risk
I am considering adding a Tascam MZ-372 mixer to my rack. That gives me seven mic inputs and 12 stereo inputs in just a 3RU unit. This gives more flexibility than I will probably ever need but more importantly frees up rack space for other stuff.
Well… you’re definitely right about controllers. They definitely have their drawbacks. However, I doubt if I could have started DJing so late in my life, had I not had a controller. They just make it SO easy for entry level people, which could be an up side or a down side, depending on your perspective.😂
 
So back to the sound cards, it sounds like I may be the only one that still uses these. I know several others here use the Numark DJ2GO controllers. Are you using it's built-in audio ports with it?
 
  • Like
Reactions: ittigger
So back to the sound cards, it sounds like I may be the only one that still uses these. I know several others here use the Numark DJ2GO controllers. Are you using it's built-in audio ports with it?
Yep! Use the DJ2GO on my ceremony rig. run the controller into zenyx behringer 1003B mixer channel 9/10 RCA stereo inputs. Running Serato on my laptop.
 
Let me ask. Does it make the sound better using an external sound card?
To be able to sell the DJ20GO for $90 through a distribution network, you have to figure that the total parts cost is under $15. It is hard to imagine they put much consideration as to sound quality at that price. A party is not a place where one does subjective quality evaluations. Besides we mostly DJ with lossy MP3 files. In other words, you may not notice any quality issues due to the cheap audio circuitry.

Sound quality has little bearing in my use of an external card. The 3.5mm connectors (as used on the DJ2GO and similar) are not particularly reliable connectors. They have minimal contact area between conductors and they require very little force to unplug. These small controllers do not offer channel faders. You only have the crossfader. An external mixer gives you more precise control of channel levels.
 
To be able to sell the DJ20GO for $90 through a distribution network, you have to figure that the total parts cost is under $15. It is hard to imagine they put much consideration as to sound quality at that price. A party is not a place where one does subjective quality evaluations. Besides we mostly DJ with lossy MP3 files. In other words, you may not notice any quality issues due to the cheap audio circuitry.

Sound quality has little bearing in my use of an external card. The 3.5mm connectors (as used on the DJ2GO and similar) are not particularly reliable connectors. They have minimal contact area between conductors and they require very little force to unplug. These small controllers do not offer channel faders. You only have the crossfader. An external mixer gives you more precise control of channel levels.
I have the same controller, I use it in my ceremony system and/or a back up if something should happen to my main controller. It work well for what it is designed to it seems like a waste of time and effort to try to make it more than it is
 
I like what I like. And yes, I do enjoy tinkering with a system till it is just what I want.

I am simply not a fan of all-in-one controllers. I have many reasons for this.
  • All-in-one controllers tend to be larger than I like
  • They have limited IO (e.g. 2 mics max and 2 stereo aux ins max)
  • I don't scratch so I don't need large jog wheels
  • I rarely use effects so I don't need countless buttons
  • The built-in screens (on those that have them) are generally too small for my eyes
  • I prefer to search via keyboard than via a knob
  • Single point failure risk
I am considering adding a Tascam MZ-372 mixer to my rack. That gives me seven mic inputs and 12 stereo inputs in just a 3RU unit. This gives more flexibility than I will probably ever need but more importantly frees up rack space for other stuff.
There's a glaring contradiction in all of this.
You have available audio output from the DJ20GO, a redundant external sound card, and plans to add a 20 channel mixer. This isn't modular it's just stacked redundancy. You now have 4 separate ways to affect volume and that's more vulnerable to error than I'd want a system to be.

The DJ20GO unit's primary design is for DJs using Serato with tracks that have already been normalized in volume. Serato software on the PC provides individual player volume controls, as do other DJ programs. Tactile track control is the DJ20G0's only real purpose.

All-in-one is not an accurate description of DJ controllers. They are just modules of varying capacity.

You seem to want a modular system but your blueprint is speculative rather than operative. (i,e. You're guessing at it's future applications.) Applications we imagine rarely reflect the reality of what we are booked to do, so we can easily fall into the trap of merely accessorizing an existing piece of gear. The defining trait (center) of a modular system has to be at least one significant event type rather than a way to compensate for lack of capacity. Start with a real event type (application) and a central piece of gear (controller) that can fully deliver that performance without needing ancillary attachments.

Example:
My DJ "module" is a Roland 707M because it's a modest unit capable of doing anything a DJ might be asked to do. It's mic inputs have digital processing similar to what's inside their Roland video switchers and negates the need for a more sophisticated audio mixer. The "2 channel" mic limitation is imaginary because either channel can easily be used to process a "group" of mics - for example, the output of a Shure SM410 for karaoke or SCM410 for speech. Here - the application is Disc Jockey - and the add-on is karaoke mics, (There is no mention of the PA - because the size of the event is not relevant to the desired DJ/KJ desktop.

The point is: our 'modules' should be attachable/detachable precisely at the point where meaningful capacity changes, and they should be truly additive not redundant. To achieve that we have to know the true 'core' application and identify the correct centerpiece.

Example:
I don't use any DJ controller for a wedding ceremony because mixing isn't necessary or even desired. It's purely a playback application. The PC and software alone fills that need. So, the module in this instance is the PC (playback device) added to a appropriate PA system for multiple ceremony mics, external feeds, delays, and high quality audio processing. It's a reverse scenario - the application is pro audio and the DJ PC (Serato) is what becomes the add-on.

These two examples serve up to 3 different scenarios that may be part of just 1 gig. In two scenarios (DJ and Karaoke) a DJ Controller is the ideal center and everything else is additive. For a wedding ceremony, Professional PA is the ideal center and a PC running a music application is the add-on. A controller in this 3rd scenario is redundant.

Also, redundancy and backup as language may have similar meaning and use, But for our purposes backup is having an alternative to failed gear or a changing condition. Redundancy on the other hand, can be viewed as gear that's duplicative without core purpose. Two active PCs ready to play content might be desirable if we don't want a computer glitch or crash to cause delay in a show flow or event. The word for that can be either, but "duplicative" is a word that typically implies something is unnecessary.
 
Last edited:
Pro, you are assuming that I am looking for a basic DJ setup. I am not. I am looking for something that can be used for multiple purposes. I do a lot of charity events and they are all different and I often need to support multiple stereo sources and multiple mics. I like my A&H CQ mixer for bands but it is not ideal for the charity events where you have three sets of performers back-to-back each looking to play music from their phones.

I do appreciate you calling my attention to the Roland 707m though. It is probably the nicest controller I have seen for my needs. If they could just get it to fit into a 19" rack... I briefly looked at cases for the 707m and none that I found had room for extra stuff like wireless receivers and extra lengths of cables. Did you make your own cases?
 
  • Like
Reactions: SEDJ and ittigger
Pro, you are assuming that I am looking for a basic DJ setup. I am not. I am looking for something that can be used for multiple purposes. I do a lot of charity events and they are all different and I often need to support multiple stereo sources and multiple mics. I like my A&H CQ mixer for bands but it is not ideal for the charity events where you have three sets of performers back-to-back each looking to play music from their phones.

I do appreciate you calling my attention to the Roland 707m though. It is probably the nicest controller I have seen for my needs. If they could just get it to fit into a 19" rack... I briefly looked at cases for the 707m and none that I found had room for extra stuff like wireless receivers and extra lengths of cables. Did you make your own cases?
I'm not recommending a "basic" anything, I'm merely pointing out that if music is yoru primary content then the CENTER of your modular system is a DJ controller. That controller should be something far more capable than a $90 TOY and capable of resolving 80% of what you describe.

Then simply add the A&H mixer to resolve your mics or other audio input/output needs. It won't matter which piece manages the outputs, The goal is to simplify the workflow and make it manageable. A PCDI or USBDI will turn any mic input into a line input should the A&H be lacking. But I can't imagine any scenario in which you woukd need more than two stereo line sources for music on phones or other devices. You can only present one performance at a time - and a pro controller typically has up to 4 external line inputs, That pretty much leaves the A&H completley open for microphones.

Even a Denon MC6000 (discontinued) would be an ideal centerpiece because it can do a lot fo what the Roland can with respect to line inputs and 4 deck palyer mode, and will still run with most DJ programs (even if older versions and ASIO sound). A used Denon would cost you about half that of the Roland.

My Roland is in a 19" rack case, customized - but a fully 19" EIA spec'd case width. I bought jt specifically for that reason,
 
Last edited:
… Even a Denon MC6000 (discontinued) would be an ideal centerpiece because it can do a lot fo what the Roland can with respect to line inputs and 4 deck palyer mode, and will still run with most DJ programs (even if older versions and ASIO sound). A used Denon would cost you about half that of the Roland.
I LOVE my Denon MC6000MK2’s, but I would warn, the mic’s never sounded as good with those controllers as they did with my Pioneer or American Audio controllers. It never bothered me much because only the DJ’s (my) mic was affected. I had wireless mic systems clients used. However, I was never satisfied with the microphone audio quality from those controllers. Music was fine, though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ittigger
I am considering adding a Tascam MZ-372 mixer to my rack. That gives me seven mic inputs and 12 stereo inputs in just a 3RU unit.
Don't do it.
19 inputs - but only 6 active channels means 2/3 of your sources are always offline. The Tascam is a zone mixer meant for a restaurant with a function room where the private room can have it's own PA functions without affecting the call station or backround sources in the retail space. Alternatively, the program in both spaces can be merged, or deployed with a dual mix minus for meeting overflow.

A far better choice for you (and for 33% less money) is a Midas MR12 or Behringer XR12. They are smaller and more portbale. Each is a far more versatile and capable tool for what you describe. They can be operated as a live mixer, or run as a DSP with your customized routing to 6 outputs from as many as 13 sources with no limitations on any of the 6 possible mix combinations. Want a zone mixer? Yes, they can do that too. Every setup you do can be saved and recalled - perfect for recurring gigs, or as a starting point for a similar gig with new variation.

I just used one for a town meeting with 8 mic inputs, automix, and output to Main, Delay, Monitors, Record, and Press. Unused were up to 4 more inputs for line sources (4 mono or 2 stereo). I record externally, but there's also onboard USB recording and playback.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: DJ Bobcat
I'm not recommending a "basic" anything, I'm merely pointing out that if music is yoru primary content then the CENTER of your modular system is a DJ controller. That controller should be something far more capable than a $90 TOY and capable of resolving 80% of what you describe.

Then simply add the A&H mixer to resolve your mics or other audio input/output needs. It won;t matter which piece manages the outputs, The goal is to simplify the workflow and make it manageable. A PCDI or USBDI will turn any mic input into a line input should the A&H be lacking. But I can;t imagine any scenario in which you woukd need more two stereo line sources for music on ohones or other devices. You can only present one performance at a time - and a pro controller typically has up to 4 external line inputs, That pretty much leaves the A&H completley open for microphones.

Even a Denon MC6000 (discontinued) would be an ideal centerpiece because it can do a lot fo what the Roland can with respect to line inputs and 4 deck palyer mode, and will still run with most DJ programs (even if older versions and ASIO sound). A used Denon would cost you about half that of the Roland.

My Roland is in a 19" rack case, customized - but a fully 19" EIA spec'd case width. I bought specifically for that reason,
Bob thanks for mentioning the Denon DN MC 6000 controller. I'm playing on it right now and it is a nice controller. I disagree with the mics on that controller not sounding as good on other controllers. They have controls in the front of the unit off from where you plug in the headphones. Adjust the knobs on the unit and it will sound fine. I actually hate they discounted that controller. Yet I understand why. They have others that have more features costing more.

They have plenty of used 6000 units on sale at Ebay. Just that some of them are pricey. There's one for sell for $1,200. That crazy! If anyone decides to buy one please be careful. I bought one that was defective. One side didn't work to use that side. Now I'm fine with the one I have. The other thing is some have a ridiculous price for shipping.
 
Bob thanks for mentioning the Denon DN MC 6000 controller. I'm playing on it right now and it is a nice controller. I disagree with the mics on that controller not sounding as good on other controllers. They have controls in the front of the unit off from where you plug in the headphones. Adjust the knobs on the unit and it will sound fine. I actually hate they discounted that controller. Yet I understand why. They have others that have more features costing more.

They have plenty of used 6000 units on sale at Ebay. Just that some of them are pricey. There's one for sell for $1,200. That crazy! If anyone decides to buy one please be careful. I bought one that was defective. One side didn't work to use that side. Now I'm fine with the one I have. The other thing is some have a ridiculous price for shipping.
The mic inouts on the Denon are fine, but again - it was not built to be a microphone mixer. Most DJs rarely (if at all) even use a microphone and many of these controllers never even leave the DJs bedroom. Good mic sound starts by selecting the right mic for what is being performed and the conditions surrounding that performance. When we fail to do that properly everything downstream is affected and issues exacerbated.

We can like our wireless mic system, but is the capsule the right one for THIS performance and environemnet or are we just going with a one-size fits all appraoch? Small chages can yiled big results.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: DJ Bobcat
The mic inouts on the Denon are fine, but again - it was not built to be a microphone mixer. Most DJs rarely (if at all) even use a microphone and many of these controllers never even leave the DJs bedroom. Good mic sound starts by selecting the right mic for what is being performed and the conditions surrounding that performance. When we fail to do that properly everything downstream is affected and issues exacerbated.

We can like our wireless mic system, but is the capsule the right one for THIS performance and environemnet or are we just going with a one-size fits all appraoch? Small chages can yiled big results.
Bob,
I would be interested in your opinion on wireless mics for the the DJ to use for announcements, and maybe a guest for a occasional speech or reading

An inexpensive option
A mid level option and a high end option but not ridiculously priced for the typical DJ
 
  • Like
Reactions: ittigger
I would be interested in your opinion on wireless mics for the the DJ to use for announcements, and maybe a guest for a occasional speech or reading
The range and recommendations on which mic is suitable for a DJ is pretty obvious at almost every cost level. The product description and the wealth of online video content is enough to set most people on the right path. There's no one mic that does everything well, so we've got to know our job and learn all we can about good mic selection and application.

The first and most important thing is to understand what it is we do and how that dictates mic parameters. Are you standing in front of your PA as an emcee or dance instructor during loud dance music segments? Are you trying to talk over loud music? Do you have issues with people not being heard while giving speeches? Do the people often cause feedback? Have you no more headroom available to turn up the mic as needed? Do you have a mixer or other device capable of properly managing a mic or is just "low and high" adjustment knobs? Our skills should influence our purchase.

If we (the user) don't know a lot about microphone management then it would be foolish to spend a fortune on a mic with very expansive features. That's just enabling us to make more errors, often to a point that the mic no longer performs well for us. DJs often have a counterintuitive ideas about how to get good mic sound. They disregard RF coordination, adjust EQ in the wrong direction or the wrong places, and their gain structure is often backwards. The issues are rarely the mic itself.

I'm in school systems and churches a lot solving microphone and sound issues so I repeatedly get to see first hand all the mistakes and misconceptions people have around microphones. When you have an issue - educate your self about the acoustic and audio realities that surrounded that problem. Don't just blame the mic. I defer to cheap mics all the time in elementary and middle school systems to lower cost, expand capacity, reduce damage or theft losses, and teach kids how run theater systems. Not every performance benefits from top quality mics - know the user.

There are times when we need more than one mic or more than one capsule to do everything well. It's not enough for a mic to reproduce sound well, because we also need a way to reject the sound we don't want. That is first accomplished with the right capsule. Everything downstream is merely shaping the sound you've already captured.

For example, about 20 of my QLXD mics are equipped with SM58 capsules, but 6 are SM87 equipped and are very helpful in highly reverberate rooms when Q&A mics are out in the audience in front of or directly under the PA. It's also a good choice for a DJ/emcee working out front and on a riser right between the PA speakers, but it would probably not work well for people giving a toast because they don't consistently hold it correctly, and tend to wander out of it's narrow field if it's in a stand.

For a Disc Jockey - any wireless mic from a Shure PGX to a QLXD and all things in between (including similar brands) will work perfectly well IF we know FIRST how to resolve RF frequencies and environmental factors, and SECONDLY, practice good mic setup and processing skills. These two latter factors far outweigh the impact of what particular product you are using.

The Chinese knock of products are something to stay away from. (There are also a LOT of counterfeits.) These cheaper models are often not well planned with respect to frequency bands and it's important to resolve the wireless environment first. Wireless mics are not universally or automatically suitable around the world. Knock-off mics and Chinese copies often lack good shock protection, and the frequency range is not as wide or as stable at common hot spots.
 
Last edited: