Cheap cables strike again

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sawdust123

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Nov 10, 2006
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Ventura County, CA
I often help my neighbor with his gigs. The guy is a great keyboardist but is nearly clueless about PA gear. Cable care is one of those areas where he really frustrates me. He can't wind cables worth a damn and he never bothers to inspect them. He has many cheap cables with old style connectors that utilize tiny screws to hold them together. Many of these screws are loose and sometimes even missing so there is nearly no remaining strain relief. This leads to many of his cable failures. The other day I when I helped him, I had a different problem that was a first for me. He had an intermittent which I normally attribute to broken solder joints or fraying of the small conductors. This wasn't either of those problems. This time the XLR female sockets were too loose.

The cable is a brand called Strukture (yes, with a "k") which is easily found on Amazon. The cable itself is decent. It has a nice hand (aka feel), good shielding and cotton filler to hold the conductors in place within the cable jacket. The lack of dirt and abrasion on the cables indicate minimal usage. The soldering of the conductors to the connector was perfectly fine too. They just chose to use really cheap connectors. The connector itself had no identifiable marks. All I can say is that it wasn't a Switchcraft, Amphenol or Neutrik. I had to replace the female end. The male end showed considerable oxidation but still made decent connections. Based on what I saw here, I would avoid Strukture cables.
 
At one time I used to replace all my cables yearly. It was a process I always carry two full sets plus a couple extra so when I would replace I would make last years cables the backup and relegate the 2 year old ones to a hockey bag for storage. I realized after many years that I had a full hockey bag of wires and I could count on one hand the number that went bad. I sold off/gave away 3/4 of the ones I had in storage. I still carry lots of backup but I change them every 3 years or so now
 
That seems pretty extreme Jeff but then again, I don't know how many gigs you are doing annually. I inspect my cables when I wrap them after a gig. If something seems off, I put it aside to test it. My cable tester can test for intermittent opens or shorts and it support many different connector types.

Lately, I have purchased or constructed a lot of cables with the specific terminations I need to avoid the need for adapters (e.g XLR-TRS, TRS-RCA). Adapters are always problematic, especially with non-locking connections like TRS or RCA. I still carry plenty of adapters but I rarely dip into that bag these days. I also have a big selection of lengths to choose from. I don't like cascading cables and I don't like having too much excess making my setup look messy. My wife gives me crap about my frequent cable purchases. I told her I would stop buying cables if she stops buying garden gnomes and serving platters.
 
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Normally you pay for what you get. I like using name brand wires. They will cost more but worth speakers the extra money. I bought a couple of 20' cables that cost me over $70. Some would feel that's a lot to spend on wires. Yet the company makes great wires and have used that brand for years without any issues.
 
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Normally you pay for what you get. I like using name brand wires. They will cost more but worth speakers the extra money. I bought a couple of 20' cables that cost me over $70.
Yes, you got what you paid for... ripped off. If you are spend more than $2/ft for 20' cables you are being stupid. Cable prices below 20' are mostly dictated by the cost of the connectors. Longer than 20' , the price per foot starts dropping quickly. I doubt you understand what goes into a good cable so I will list some key properties.
  • Conductor construction -
    The gauge of the wire - lower numbers mean thicker wires and lower signal loss
    The number of strands per conductor (more strands mean more flexibility)
    The consistency of the twist (for noise immunity),
  • The number of conductors -
    Most cables have 2 plus a shield. 4 conductor wires aka star quad cables, offer the best noise immunity but they are heavier and more expensive
  • Shield type -
    Swerve shields are cheap and don't offer full coverage. With use, the swerve will start bunching up creating unshielded sections
    Braided shields offer great stability with flexing. Most offer 95% coverage. Some cables are double braided but this is usually unneeded.
    Braids over mylar foil offer 100% coverage but the mylar doesn't hold up well with repeated coiling. The mylar can create static as well if they are flexed while in use.
    Mylar only shields should be avoided except in cases where the cable doesn't get moved a lot. Many multichannel snakes have mylar shields with a drain wire for soldering. These actually have poor noise immunity.
  • Jacket (outer layer) type
    You want a good compromise between flexibility, thickness, abrasion resistance and dirt resistance.
  • Connector type -
    Neutrik, Switchcraft and Amphenol are among the better brands.
    Each brand offers multiple connector types. I prefer black ones that don't require a screwdriver to disassemble.
    Neutrik EMC XLR connectors offer great immunity from RF interference. I've needed these in some places.
  • Solder quality -
    Good materials don't make up for a bad assembly. I inspect all new cables and will resolder ones that have cold solder joints (ones that have reflowed well).
BTW, I have spent years measuring cables in high noise environments. A good cable will exhibit 40-50 dB (10000x-100000x) lower noise than a poor one. The cost difference between them is often less than 2:1.
 
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Yes, you got what you paid for... ripped off. If you are spend more than $2/ft for 20' cables you are being stupid. Cable prices below 20' are mostly dictated by the cost of the connectors. Longer than 20' , the price per foot starts dropping quickly. I doubt you understand what goes into a good cable so I will list some key properties.
  • Conductor construction -
    The gauge of the wire - lower numbers mean thicker wires and lower signal loss
    The number of strands per conductor (more strands mean more flexibility)
    The consistency of the twist (for noise immunity),
  • The number of conductors -
    Most cables have 2 plus a shield. 4 conductor wires aka star quad cables, offer the best noise immunity but they are heavier and more expensive
  • Shield type -
    Swerve shields are cheap and don't offer full coverage. With use, the swerve will start bunching up creating unshielded sections
    Braided shields offer great stability with flexing. Most offer 95% coverage. Some cables are double braided but this is usually unneeded.
    Braids over mylar foil offer 100% coverage but the mylar doesn't hold up well with repeated coiling. The mylar can create static as well if they are flexed while in use.
    Mylar only shields should be avoided except in cases where the cable doesn't get moved a lot. Many multichannel snakes have mylar shields with a drain wire for soldering. These actually have poor noise immunity.
  • Jacket (outer layer) type
    You want a good compromise between flexibility, thickness, abrasion resistance and dirt resistance.
  • Connector type -
    Neutrik, Switchcraft and Amphenol are among the better brands.
    Each brand offers multiple connector types. I prefer black ones that don't require a screwdriver to disassemble.
    Neutrik EMC XLR connectors offer great immunity from RF interference. I've needed these in some places.
  • Solder quality -
    Good materials don't make up for a bad assembly. I inspect all new cables and will resolder ones that have cold solder joints (ones that have reflowed well).
BTW, I have spent years measuring cables in high noise environments. A good cable will exhibit 40-50 dB (10000x-100000x) lower noise than a poor one. The cost difference between them is often less than 2:1.
I paid $35 for each one. So by your calculations $2.00 for each foot is $40 since I'm talking 20 feet. So how was I getting ripped off?
 
I paid $35 for each one. So by your calculations $2.00 for each foot is $40 since I'm talking 20 feet. So how was I getting ripped off?
The way you had written that, I made the assumption that you paid $70 for each cable. Retail price for an average 20 foot XLR cable is about $20 (give or take). Perhaps you purchased star-quad (4-conductor) cables. Otherwise, you probably got ripped off.
 
I paid $35 for each one. So by your calculations $2.00 for each foot is $40 since I'm talking 20 feet. So how was I getting ripped off?

Mixxy, Did you ever recover any of your old gear that was stolen?
 
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I paid $35 for each one. So by your calculations $2.00 for each foot is $40 since I'm talking 20 feet. So how was I getting ripped off?
I recently paid the same amount - but what I got was FOUR fifty-foot cables. So, I essentially acquired more than 6 times the cable length and better than double the channel count for the same price.

I would argue that both of you are behaving equally foolish with respect to these cables - albeit for different reasons.

Sawdust - because you typically emphasize technical standards irrespective of the application.
Macho - because you emphasize the application irrespective of the user experience.

Are my cables the best available? Certainly not.
My cables match up with the following considerations:
  • Suitability and capacity to transmit the intended signal
  • Connector termination that is durable and preferably field serviceable
  • Overall build quality that is consistent with my procedure
  • User experience: (does it handle, lay, coil, and store well in actual use)
I've witnessed countless DJ operations in their setup and strike and when it comes to cable selection the most important factor to be considered is: behavior.

DJ work is not particularly demanding when it comes to cables, but the same cannot be said for the people using them. If we're that guy who at the end of every show is yanking our cables free of the furniture they are snagged on in an effort to score a record breaking departure time - it will not matter what cable you own. If we are wrapping cables around our elbows and knotting the ends to contain the loop - we're going to be buying frequent replacements. Setup for this kind of user is a recurring story of items left behind or lost, forgotten repairs or replacement, and eleventh-hour purchase runs.

Our professionalism is characterized by our behavior rather than the price of the things we are handling. The items we purchase need only be consistent with how we use them, assuming that is - that we are fully aware of the requirements of the intended use. To that end - there are "pro" users, but a "pro cable" is a misnomer.

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I would argue that both of you are behaving equally foolish with respect to these cables - albeit for different reasons.

Sawdust - because you typically emphasize technical standards irrespective of the application.
Macho - because you emphasize the application irrespective of the user experience.
Bob, you missed the gist of my post. Mixy was saying he bought quality cables and I doubt he really understands what goes into a quality cable so I laid it out. As for my personal cable selection, it is based on the same very practical issues that you have laid out. For instance, I use star-quad cables when making precision measurements but I rarely use them at gigs. Besides being heavier, they have higher capacitance which can cause the highs to roll off on long runs (mine are shorter than 10 feet). Everything has a trade-off. Some people can appreciate the trade-offs they are making while others have no idea.

BTW, I see you have a few CAT snake kits. Which ones do you use? I have the ones from RAT Sound. They are impressively sturdy. Dave Rat and I have been friends for years and he gave me a set because I helped him out on some stuff.
 
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BTW, I see you have a few CAT snake kits. Which ones do you use? I have the ones from RAT Sound. They are impressively sturdy. Dave Rat and I have been friends for years and he gave me a set because I helped him out on some stuff.
I have a set of the RAT boxes and will likley sell them. I recently sold a similar pair. I prefer the pigtail version to the boxes because my application is typically analog line level bi-directional mix-minus links between meeting and overflow rooms up to 300 feet away. The pigtails are more efficient with less clutter for that purpose, and it's very clean and easy to insert a gender change.

I also have a few other brands that I like (Radial, LyxPro, JiaSound) These other 3 also have similar rugged builds and work quite well. The Lyx is virtually indestructable and brilliantly color coded, While the Radial and JiaSound are very low profile for discreet spaces. The wire pairs are not consistent from one brand to the next, so test first for channel match and phase if mixing and matching brands - which I often do to get from XLR to TRS or Phoenix.
 
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I also have a few other brands that I like (Radial, LyxPro, JiaSound) These other 3 also have similar rugged builds and work quite well. The Lyx is virtually indestructable and brilliantly color coded, While the Radial and JiaSound are very low profile for discreet spaces. The wire pairs are not consistent from one brand to the next, so test first for channel match and phase if mixing and matching brands - which I often do to get from XLR to TRS.
Yes, pigtails can be convenient. I have an off brand pigtail for the male end and found a similar channel wiring inconsistency before the first time I used it. It also had one channel wired in reverse polarity. AES72 is the standard for wiring these. It was published in 2019 but I'm not sure how many brands knowingly follow it. There can also be inconsistencies if one uses crossover cables (aka T568B).
 
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