Are we, as an industry, ruined?

To many ads? Support ODJT and see no ads!

Handinon

DJ Extraordinaire
Oct 1, 2014
1,761
2,856
73
What a convoluted thread this has turned into. Being part and parcel of a Society means you will always have laws/restrictions/requirements imposed on you for the good of all...and if not, why am I, in my fancy sports car, supposed to do the same speed limit as an 84,000 pound (that's 42 Tons) semi??
 

steve149

Shine on you crazy diamond
Staff member
ODJT Supporter
Sep 26, 2011
26,148
41,313
Connecticut
What a convoluted thread this has turned into. Being part and parcel of a Society means you will always have laws/restrictions/requirements imposed on you for the good of all...and if not, why am I, in my fancy sports car, supposed to do the same speed limit as an 84,000 pound (that's 42 Tons) semi??
Yes, but there should be far less and certainly less ominous ones for rights vs. privileges.
 

Jeff Romard

Administrator
Staff member
ODJT Supporter
Sep 4, 2006
18,868
15,334
50
Sydney, Nova Scotia
You are clearly operating from a position of fear w/out intelligent skepticism.

Do you mask up every influenza season, every cold season, every time some new deer tick disease is discovered?

Do you "distance" as well all in those circumstances?

If not, why not? Given your criteria, "more people are alive because of it."

I guess we all live like frightened lemmings until EVERYONE IS FORCED TO GET THE TEST and a FORCE DTO GET A VACCINE THAT is PROVEN 100% successful.

Pitiful surrender sheeple...Darryl Hall would be so disappointed in you.


Signs Fear Is Running Your Life (and likely that of others)
1) Striving in vain for an impossible-to-achieve standard of perfection.
(100% testing status. %100 successful vaccine, Zero possibility of transmission)
2) You settle for less...of a normal, free life. You compromise in the name of being "realistic." But settling isn't realism; it's a devastating symptom of fear.
3) You muzzle yourself. (No additional comment necessary here)
4) Increased stress. Typically manifests in extremism or complete & uncharacteristic surrender.

Here are a few famous quotes, thought on fear to consider, just for shits & giggles:

"Each of us must confront our own fears, must come face to face with them. How we handle our fears will determine where we go with the rest of our lives. To experience adventure or to be limited by the fear of it."-Judy Blume

"Inaction breeds doubt and fear. Action breeds confidence and courage. If you want to conquer fear, do not sit home and think about it. Go out and get busy."-Dale Carnegie

"You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, 'I have lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along.' You must do the thing you think you cannot do."--Eleanor Roosevelt

"Fear is the path to the Dark Side. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering."-Yoda

"The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear."-Nelson Mandela

"Nothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood.'-Marie Curie

"The key to change...is to let go of fear."-Roseanne Cash

"He who is not everyday conquering some fear has not learned the secret of life."-Ralph Waldo Emerson

"We should all start to live before we get too old. Fear is stupid. So are regrets."-Marilyn Monroe

"Fear keeps us focused on the past or worried about the future. If we can acknowledge our fear, we can realize that right now we are okay. Right now, today, we are still alive, and our bodies are working marvelously. Our eyes can still see the beautiful sky. Our ears can still hear the voices of our loved ones."-Thich Nhat Hanh

"Have no fear of perfection--you'll never reach it."-Salvador Dali

"Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. The fearful are caught as often as the bold."-Helen Keller

"I'm not afraid of storms, for I'm learning how to sail my ship."-Louisa May Alcott

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."-Theodore Roosevelt

1590192790106.png

1590192812239.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: dunlopj

Proformance

DJ Extraordinaire
Nov 6, 2006
6,544
3,852
What a convoluted thread this has turned into. Being part and parcel of a Society means you will always have laws/restrictions/requirements imposed on you for the good of all...and if not, why am I, in my fancy sports car, supposed to do the same speed limit as an 84,000 pound (that's 42 Tons) semi??
Speed limits are not laws - they are regulations. Repeated violation revokes your license - not your liberty.

Health codes are also regulations not laws. Furthermore, there are no existing health codes that provide for suspension of an entire population's liberty, property, or commerce. We are all volunteers.

It's necessary to identify your politics before using a phrase like: "For the good of all" because if you hold dear the U.S. Constitution and are educated in it's language then you would know that in the U.S. "..the good for all" is presumed and pursued with the protection of individual rights and liberty. If on the other hand you are a monarchist, authoritarian, socialist, or communist, then you believe that the "good for all" is directed and controlled by a central authority.
 
Last edited:

TES3S

DJ Extraordinaire
Sep 18, 2016
483
278
Los Angeles, CA
A cold and the "regular flu" are nowhere near as contagious or deadly as COVID, so the comparison is mute. In the last few months, even with social distancing, we have far surpassed how many people die in a given year from the "regular flu." The flu season kills 40,000 people on average every year in the United States. COVID has already killed 95,000 people in the United States, (currently 2.375 times more than an entire year for the regular flu). I am basing my life-choices on numbers, science and doctors--and yes, when new information is revealed health guidelines change, as is to be expected when one follows research and scientific data.

Wearing a mask does not protect the mask wearer--it protects other people who are in my vicinity. I choose to wear a mask, not b/c I think I am likely to die or have severe complications from COVID, but because I want to show respect to others who are more vulnerable in our population, and to the health-care workers who are putting their lives at risk for the rest of us, especially considering approximately 40% (according to current numbers) of cases are asymptomatic, so I could be spreading COVID and not know it.

I also acknowledge that everyone lives in a different area, with different population densities, different hospital capacities, infection rates, etc., so of course these should also be taken into consideration.

I'll continue to wear a mask when going out in public for the foreseeable future to help protect others' grandparents near me, just as I hope others who live near my grandmothers in Texas do the same for their sakes.
 
Last edited:

anzyxx

DJ Extraordinaire
Jul 22, 2007
1,169
130
GTA
A cold and the "regular flu" are nowhere near as contagious or deadly as COVID, so the comparison is mute. In the last few months, even with social distancing, we have far surpassed how many people die in a given year from the "regular flu." The flu season kills 40,000 people on average every year in the United States. COVID has already killed 95,000 people in the United States, (currently 2.375 times more than an entire year for the regular flu). I am basing my life-choices on numbers, science and doctors--and yes, when new information is revealed health guidelines change, as is to be expected when one follows research and scientific data.

Wearing a mask does not protect the mask wearer--it protects other people who are in my vicinity. I choose to wear a mask, not b/c I think I am likely to die or have severe complications from COVID, but because I want to show respect to others who are more vulnerable in our population, and to the health-care workers who are putting their lives at risk for the rest of us, especially considering approximately 40% (according to current numbers) of cases are asymptomatic, so I could be spreading COVID and not know it.

I also acknowledge that everyone lives in a different area, with different population densities, different hospital capacities, infection rates, etc., so of course these should also be taken into consideration.

I'll continue to wear a mask when going out in public for the foreseeable future to help protect others' grandparents near me, just as I hope others who live near my grandmothers in Texas do the same for their sakes.
 

steve149

Shine on you crazy diamond
Staff member
ODJT Supporter
Sep 26, 2011
26,148
41,313
Connecticut
A cold and the "regular flu" are nowhere near as contagious or deadly as COVID, so the comparison is mute. In the last few months, even with social distancing, we have far surpassed how many people die in a given year from the "regular flu." The flu season kills 40,000 people on average every year in the United States. COVID has already killed 95,000 people in the United States, (currently 2.375 times more than an entire year for the regular flu). I am basing my life-choices on numbers, science and doctors--and yes, when new information is revealed health guidelines change, as is to be expected when one follows research and scientific data.

Wearing a mask does not protect the mask wearer--it protects other people who are in my vicinity. I choose to wear a mask, not b/c I think I am likely to die or have severe complications from COVID, but because I want to show respect to others who are more vulnerable in our population, and to the health-care workers who are putting their lives at risk for the rest of us, especially considering approximately 40% (according to current numbers) of cases are asymptomatic, so I could be spreading COVID and not know it.

I also acknowledge that everyone lives in a different area, with different population densities, different hospital capacities, infection rates, etc., so of course these should also be taken into consideration.

I'll continue to wear a mask when going out in public for the foreseeable future to help protect others' grandparents near me, just as I hope others who live near my grandmothers in Texas do the same for their sakes.
Covid 19 has killed 340K this year (at least that's the reported amount). The flu kills anywhere from 290K-650K EVERY year, so, yeah, the flu is as, if not more deadly.
 

djrox

Sir Wyzazz
ODJT Supporter
Aug 12, 2006
6,933
4,087
New Orleans, Louisiana
A cold and the "regular flu" are nowhere near as contagious or deadly as COVID, so the comparison is mute. In the last few months, even with social distancing, we have far surpassed how many people die in a given year from the "regular flu." The flu season kills 40,000 people on average every year in the United States. COVID has already killed 95,000 people in the United States, (currently 2.375 times more than an entire year for the regular flu). I am basing my life-choices on numbers, science and doctors--and yes, when new information is revealed health guidelines change, as is to be expected when one follows research and scientific data.

Wearing a mask does not protect the mask wearer--it protects other people who are in my vicinity. I choose to wear a mask, not b/c I think I am likely to die or have severe complications from COVID, but because I want to show respect to others who are more vulnerable in our population, and to the health-care workers who are putting their lives at risk for the rest of us, especially considering approximately 40% (according to current numbers) of cases are asymptomatic, so I could be spreading COVID and not know it.

I also acknowledge that everyone lives in a different area, with different population densities, different hospital capacities, infection rates, etc., so of course these should also be taken into consideration.

I'll continue to wear a mask when going out in public for the foreseeable future to help protect others' grandparents near me, just as I hope others who live near my grandmothers in Texas do the same for their sakes.
Thank You Dr. TeS3S.

I bet you models are as useless as the previous dozen failed models.
 

TES3S

DJ Extraordinaire
Sep 18, 2016
483
278
Los Angeles, CA
I live in the United States, so I will base my decision-making on U.S. numbers. In the last 5 months COVID has been around it has killed 2.417 times (updated to reflect today's numbers) more than an ENTIRE year for the average U.S. 'regular flu' season. The numbers are pretty straightforward to me...

Keep in mind, these numbers are a result of the implemented social distancing rules, which had the purpose of helping our hospitals deal with potential overload by spreading out the infection/death rate over a longer period of time (it won't eliminate all the infections/death, just delay them enough to allow our hospitals to cope)...The death-rate would have undoubtedly been much higher much faster had we not done that.

I'm not a doctor, but I will keep up with the research and data coming from doctors and researchers. I sure hope you're right that COVID is less deadly than the 'regular flu' world-wide, but while there are still many unknowns about COVID, but as it stands right now, I would rather be safe than sorry and deal with the small inconvenience of wearing a mask, for the potential greater good.

Stay safe.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: anzyxx and dunlopj

steve149

Shine on you crazy diamond
Staff member
ODJT Supporter
Sep 26, 2011
26,148
41,313
Connecticut
I live in the United States, so I will base my decision-making on U.S. numbers. In the last 5 months COVID has been around it has killed 2.417 times (updated to reflect today's numbers) more than an ENTIRE year for the average U.S. 'regular flu' season. The numbers are pretty straightforward to me...

I'm not a doctor, but I will keep up with the research and data coming from doctors and researchers. I sure hope you're right that COVID is less deadly than the 'regular flu' world-wide, but while there are still many unknowns about COVID, but as it stands right now, I would rather be safe than sorry and deal with the small inconvenience of wearing a mask, for the potential greater good.

Stay safe.
Where are you getting numbers from? Current Covid deaths in the US are 99K .. in the '17-'18 Flu season, we lost 80K (CDC says 24,000-62,000 estimated this season). So there are maybe 25=50% more and according to the medical profession, a percentage of those that died with a Covid 19 classification would have died anyway. SO it's an increase, but not stratospheric.
 
  • Like
Reactions: djrox

TES3S

DJ Extraordinaire
Sep 18, 2016
483
278
Los Angeles, CA
Where are you getting numbers from? Current Covid deaths in the US are 99K .. in the '17-'18 Flu season, we lost 80K (CDC says 24,000-62,000 estimated this season). So there are maybe 25=50% more and according to the medical profession, a percentage of those that died with a Covid 19 classification would have died anyway. SO it's an increase, but not stratospheric.
I'd like to ask you the same... I'm looking at the CDC website, and it states an estimated 61,000 deaths in the 2017-2018 season. The CDC estimates 34,157 flu deaths in 2018-2019 and 38,000 flu deaths in 2016-2017. Cherry-picking one high season, rather than taking the average yearly death count from the flu is quite misleading and statistically unsound. Doing the math over the last 9 flu seasons listed on the link below, over the past 9 years the average number of flu deaths in the U.S. has been approximately 37,400 (actually less than the 40,000 annual average I read previously and have been calculating for).


I use John Hopkins University to cite the current death count from Covid, which as of now stands at 96,983.


If you take the current death toll of 96,983 and divide it by the average yearly date rate of the flu of 37,400, you get that as the numbers stand right now, COVID is 2.593 times deadlier than the yearly average flu death toll. Of course there's room for variance--not all flu deaths are reported, as I'm sure not all COVID deaths are reported and much remains to be seen in regards to COVID, as this is ongoing. However, as it currently stands based on the numbers we have right now, COVID is 2.593 times deadlier than the flu.

To respond to your point about those being classified as COVID deaths when they had other illnesses that may have killed them, that's a totally valid point. If someone dies a month earlier than they would have, because they have cancer and they contracted COVID, should we count that as a COVID death or cancer death? What about if they died three months earlier than they would have without COVID, but from cancer? What about a year? At what point do we distinguish a person 'had enough life left' that COVID cut short that we deem unacceptable, and therefore their death is caused by COVID and not another underlying condition? This also assumes we know how long a person with a disease will live. This is a point that may or may not sway death toll counts at a later time. Either way, I don't want to be the one giving that person COVID and cutting their life short unnecessarily, when I can help lower risks by simply wearing a mask.
 

steve149

Shine on you crazy diamond
Staff member
ODJT Supporter
Sep 26, 2011
26,148
41,313
Connecticut
I'd like to ask you the same... I'm looking at the CDC website, and it states an estimated 61,000 deaths in the 2017-2018 season. The CDC estimates 34,157 flu deaths in 2018-2019 and 38,000 flu deaths in 2016-2017. Cherry-picking one high season, rather than taking the average yearly death count from the flu is quite misleading and statistically unsound. Doing the math over the last 9 flu seasons listed on the link below, over the past 9 years the average number of flu deaths in the U.S. has been approximately 37,400 (actually less than the 40,000 annual average I read previously and have been calculating for).


I use John Hopkins University to cite the current death count from Covid, which as of now stands at 96,983.


If you take the current death toll of 96,983 and divide it by the average yearly date rate of the flu of 37,400, you get that as the numbers stand right now, COVID is 2.593 times deadlier than the yearly average flu death toll. Of course there's room for variance--not all flu deaths are reported, as I'm sure not all COVID deaths are reported and much remains to be seen in regards to COVID, as this is ongoing. However, as it currently stands based on the numbers we have right now, COVID is 2.593 times deadlier than the flu.

To respond to your point about those being classified as COVID deaths when they had other illnesses that may have killed them, that's a totally valid point. If someone dies a month earlier than they would have, because they have cancer and they contracted COVID, should we count that as a COVID death or cancer death? What about if they died three months earlier than they would have without COVID, but from cancer? What about a year? At what point do we distinguish a person 'had enough life left' that COVID cut short that we deem unacceptable, and therefore their death is caused by COVID and not another underlying condition? This also assumes we know how long a person with a disease will live. This is a point that may or may not sway death toll counts at a later time. Either way, I don't want to be the one giving that person COVID and cutting their life short unnecessarily, when I can help lower risks by simply wearing a mask.
As long as you plan to wear that mask forever going forward since we'll NEVER know when there is a circulating virus that we might be asymptomatically carrying ..
 
  • Like
Reactions: djrox

Ausumm

No Matter Where You Go... There You Are!
Oct 21, 2008
11,162
12,580
56
Bethlehem PA
Covid 19 has killed 340K this year (at least that's the reported amount). The flu kills anywhere from 290K-650K EVERY year, so, yeah, the flu is as, if not more deadly.
You can't go by the the overall numbers....
you have to consider the percentage of people who die from being infected.
The death rate of COVID19 is much higher.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jeff Romard

Ausumm

No Matter Where You Go... There You Are!
Oct 21, 2008
11,162
12,580
56
Bethlehem PA
You are clearly operating from a position of fear w/out intelligent skepticism.
Do you mask up every influenza season, every cold season, every time some new deer tick disease is discovered?
Do you "distance" as well all in those circumstances?
If not, why not? Given your criteria, "more people are alive because of it."
No, because COVID kills much more efficiently.
Also, my father-in-law had heart surgery in March...so I avoided him for 3 months.
But if he had the surgery during a normal flu season, and I was sick...
I would distance myself and wear a mask around him.
 

Ausumm

No Matter Where You Go... There You Are!
Oct 21, 2008
11,162
12,580
56
Bethlehem PA
Did you do this previously, since we have and have had many types of re-transmittable diseases with no outward symptoms .. some far more dangerous than this one. And are you planning to do it forever going forward given there is rarely a downtime that NO disease is proliferating?
Let's be honest, we haven't had one as deadly.
And no, I will move on, once we have a cure/vaccine/remedy.
 

steve149

Shine on you crazy diamond
Staff member
ODJT Supporter
Sep 26, 2011
26,148
41,313
Connecticut
Let's be honest, we haven't had one as deadly.
And no, I will move on, once we have a cure/vaccine/remedy.
We won't have a cure. We may have a vaccine or remedy, but up to 600,000 people die each year from the flu and we have vaccines and remedies for those strains as well. So, to be safe, one would need to wear masks, socially distance and such forever, since you'd never know when you were a carrier .. or you accept the small chance of getting sick and move on in life.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dunlopj

Jeff Romard

Administrator
Staff member
ODJT Supporter
Sep 4, 2006
18,868
15,334
50
Sydney, Nova Scotia

steve149

Shine on you crazy diamond
Staff member
ODJT Supporter
Sep 26, 2011
26,148
41,313
Connecticut
For those of you worried about your freedoms....

That darn "Fairness" doctrine ...
 

Proformance

DJ Extraordinaire
Nov 6, 2006
6,544
3,852
For those of you worried about your freedoms....

I could care less what happens on twitter - it's an outlet for people's mind farts, and those who crave basking in the odor. Worse, is much of today's radio and television is just re-farts of what appears on twitter. You really have to look far and wide to find meaningful information about anything.

Be grateful that every minute a politician spends on twitter is another minute not spent screwing over taxpayers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dunlopj