ANOTHER AUDIO-NEWBIE QUESTION

TJS

GetSomeJuJu
Nov 8, 2018
324
330
54
Ankeny, IA
www.jujulab.rocks
Okay, as I keep trying to learn audio routing etc, there is one thing I've never understood looking at a sound board.

When a channel says 5/6 or 7/8 on a board what does this really mean you can do (in layman's terms)? From the picture, If I have a musician that needs a vocal mic and needs to also plug in his guitar, am I able to plug his xlr mic cable into the xlr input at the top of channel 5 (for example) and then two inputs below that, plug his guitar into Line 6 (which looks like it's "R") and therefore use this same 5/6 channel for both vocal and guitar? Of course, if I can do this, it means I have no control over each of them separately, correct? Since there is only one gain for this channel. He would have to control the volume of his guitar from his own guitar. Am I remotely on the right track here? :-/
 

Attachments

  • Like
Reactions: ittigger

steve149

Shine on you crazy diamond
Staff member
ODJT Supporter
Sep 26, 2011
26,700
42,471
Connecticut
Given a mic output is generally lower than a guitar output (normally), you would have a challenge running both outputs to the same stereo input, as the gain control is shared by both the XLR and 1/4" inputs and would generally need to be set different for the 2 inputs. Usually, you can use 1 or the other, though I have seen boards that allow both (normally only if both signals are line level).

Also, EQ would typically be different and Send routing might be as well if you need to send vocals to say a reverb effect unit.

So, generally, we don't share inputs.
 

TJS

GetSomeJuJu
Nov 8, 2018
324
330
54
Ankeny, IA
www.jujulab.rocks
Hmmm. Okay, so if this is a "12 channel mixer" do I really only have 8 channels? since 5/6 is really only 1 channel (from a practical use perspective) and the same holds true for 7/8, 9/10 and 11/12? I guess I really don't get why they don't just provide 12 individual channels and why they're doubling up like this when really, practically speaking, you can only use either the xlr or the line input but not both at the same time.
 

steve149

Shine on you crazy diamond
Staff member
ODJT Supporter
Sep 26, 2011
26,700
42,471
Connecticut
Marketing ... technically there are 12 channels. since you CAN use the 1/4" inputs as 2 separate input channels, though they share the same gain/EQ/sends and output fader. Most mixers are sold this way .. especially at the smaller end, where a mix of mono and stereo inputs is expected. As the mixers get larger, normally all inputs become mono (most with mic or line level switchable) and there tends to be less stereo inputs .. sometimes just 1 .. then you need to use 2 adjacent channels for a stereo input.
 

steve149

Shine on you crazy diamond
Staff member
ODJT Supporter
Sep 26, 2011
26,700
42,471
Connecticut
I used to have one of these (Allen&Heath GL2400-24) .... lots of channels (sold it because I never got above 16 channels used and I had 2 other 16 channel boards) .. It was also a beast to move around for 1 person.

1594863743627.png
 

sawdust123

DJ Extraordinaire
Nov 10, 2006
501
1,158
57
Ventura County, CA
I spent a lot of time with GL2400. I believe I used the 32 channel version. It was a great analog board for the money. Yes, it was quite a beast to move around but that is relative. The 24 channel RAMSA board I once used was about the same footprint (maybe more) and definitely heavier.
 

steve149

Shine on you crazy diamond
Staff member
ODJT Supporter
Sep 26, 2011
26,700
42,471
Connecticut
The board I used most in the past was a smaller 16ch Soundcraft FX16 .. I had this for a number of years until replaced by my current A&H ZED12FX. Had most things one needed for a small group. The ZED is perfect for my needs now .. USB in/out, effects, 6 mic channels, 3 "dual" stereo channels, though a higher mic count would have been helpful a couple of years back when someone asked me last minute to run sound for a band "with only 3 mics needed" .. that turned out to need 9 mics (2 more for guitar amps and 4 for drums) when I got there. I had a Rane MLM42S rack mount mic mixer I used to mix down the drums into a single channel (had to drop one of the mics, though honestly the drummer pounded so hard I had the level down to near 0 most of the night).

1594910265398.png 1594910795408.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: ittigger

Proformance

DJ Extraordinaire
Nov 6, 2006
6,789
4,083
Hmmm. Okay, so if this is a "12 channel mixer" do I really only have 8 channels? since 5/6 is really only 1 channel (from a practical use perspective) and the same holds true for 7/8, 9/10 and 11/12? I guess I really don't get why they don't just provide 12 individual channels and why they're doubling up like this when really, practically speaking, you can only use either the xlr or the line input but not both at the same time.
Well, yes you do have a 12 channel mixer - it's just limited to 7 microphones. Each of the combo channels are dual-mono or stereo capable. They are intended for things like keyboards or electronic pianos which are line level and might be mono or stereo. You can connect two mono keyboards to the same channel (5/6) and level their input signals using each keyboards own output level control. These may also be useful for electronic drums. That is how you arrive at 12 channels - by using dual mono inputs.

This is a kind of "cheat" however, and the preferred way to use these is for stereo inputs. In addition to the parallel processing limitations of dual mono (as others have pointed out - you could end up with unexpected results depending on how your mixer actually combines the two signals. It's a jack knife to solve problems in the field. If you end up having to do this frequently to free up more mic inputs it's time to move on to another mixer.

You can also use these inputs to expand your mic capability by connecting and outboard auto-mixer. If you had a panel discussion using 4, 8, or more mics, followed by a musical performance itself needing 6 mics (preset, rehearsed, and ready to go immediately when the panel breaks) you'd be able to setup for both segments in advance and accomplish better mic control for the panel by connecting an external automix to one of these line inputs.

These combo inputs became more prevalent as electronic music grew in popularity. You can imagine someone like ZED favoring these inputs over the XLR mic pad. DJs have also been looking or ways to get more or better mic handling into the kinds of things that they have expanded into such as ceremonies, etc.

There are new lines of mixers which assume ALL inputs to be stereo unless otherwise configured by the user. The Behringer Wing is an example, and it's aimed at studio and remixing use.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Ausumm

Ausumm

No Matter Where You Go... There You Are!
Oct 21, 2008
11,266
12,810
56
Bethlehem PA
Each of the combo channels are dual-mono or stereo cable. They are intended for things like keyboards or electronic pianos which are line level and might be mono or stereo. .
Some mixers also have the dual channels with RCA inputs...
so you can plug in a CD player or other two channel (stereo) device.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ittigger

steve149

Shine on you crazy diamond
Staff member
ODJT Supporter
Sep 26, 2011
26,700
42,471
Connecticut
I spent a lot of time with GL2400. I believe I used the 32 channel version. It was a great analog board for the money. Yes, it was quite a beast to move around but that is relative. The 24 channel RAMSA board I once used was about the same footprint (maybe more) and definitely heavier.
I also had a Carvin 24 channel board .. much lighter but unfortunately, much, much suckier ...
 

MIXMASTERMACHOM

DJ Extraordinaire
Oct 16, 2011
10,458
1,413
62
I used to have one of these (Allen&Heath GL2400-24) .... lots of channels (sold it because I never got above 16 channels used and I had 2 other 16 channel boards) .. It was also a beast to move around for 1 person.

View attachment 51456
That looks more like a board not designed for mobile DJ use. Much like the original Numark NS 7. That thing was super heavy. Too heavy for mobile DJ use. My gave it to his son.
 

steve149

Shine on you crazy diamond
Staff member
ODJT Supporter
Sep 26, 2011
26,700
42,471
Connecticut
That looks more like a board not designed for mobile DJ use. Much like the original Numark NS 7. That thing was super heavy. Too heavy for mobile DJ use. My gave it to his son.
I didn't use it to DJ with .. it was for bands mostly.
 

steve149

Shine on you crazy diamond
Staff member
ODJT Supporter
Sep 26, 2011
26,700
42,471
Connecticut
I went to a Yamaha O1V-96VCM after I stopped using the GL2400. It was a lot smaller and had scene automation. The Studio Manager software let me see all faders at once.
I went to one of the earlier Presonus 16.4.2 boards (and my Soundcraft FX16). I hated the Presonus .. back then you had to connect it via Firewire to a laptop, which isn't so easy with a non-Mac. Then you could connect via WiFi with another laptop to do remote control .. but without motorized faders, you then had to stay with the remote console, because it was terrible trying to match the faders to the remote (they had some blinky light process).

So it went pretty quick and I just used the Soundcraft, which sounded great and had what I needed.
 

steve149

Shine on you crazy diamond
Staff member
ODJT Supporter
Sep 26, 2011
26,700
42,471
Connecticut
Don't be silly, this is perfect for DJs - and way better than the original Numark NS7. Better than the unoriginal NS 7 too.

You need one of these - and the price is right:

A&L GL2400
Mix really needs two .. one for the monitor engineer position .. got to do those festivals right !!
 

steve149

Shine on you crazy diamond
Staff member
ODJT Supporter
Sep 26, 2011
26,700
42,471
Connecticut
I went to a Yamaha O1V-96VCM after I stopped using the GL2400. It was a lot smaller and had scene automation. The Studio Manager software let me see all faders at once.
I used one once .. never cared for the little LCD on it, but it sounded fine.
 

sawdust123

DJ Extraordinaire
Nov 10, 2006
501
1,158
57
Ventura County, CA
I used one once .. never cared for the little LCD on it, but it sounded fine.
Agreed. I always had my laptop hooked up because Studio Manager gave me a bigger display in full color.

What is funny is that I chose this mixer because I could get it with 3x ADAT inputs. My wireless systems were in racks of 8. Each had an 8-channel A-D converter with ADAT output. I only needed to run a couple of TOSLINK cables to each rack. Yamaha's replacement mixers (TF Series) don't support the optional input cards. The LS series does but you need to go to the 32 fader version to get two slots whereas the O1V gave you one ADAT input by default and the optional slot supported a dual ADAT input card to get me my 24 inputs.

I had a lot of hopes for Dante and AVB but the prices on those converter boxes are ridiculously high for my application (k-8 performing arts). If I needed to buy something today to replace that, the X32 system with remote stage boxes would be the only thing close but it would be much bigger, still more expensive and have the Behringer pride :sick:.