TOPS - Which would you go for?

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rickryan.com

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Dec 9, 2009
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Just fodder for discussion. We're talking weddings. In a biamp setup, would you prefer 2 heavy, bulkier tops (45lbs-15") or 4 smaller, lighter weight cabinets which have a wider spread? I'm finding more and more of my gigs are in larger rooms and often with a wider spread of guest seating. I also get a bit tired of hoisting 45lb cabs up onto a speaker pole. Just being curious.
 
If you use subs, I don't see a need for "large" (15" mainly) tops anywhere. I think 15" 2-ways are preferred if you DON'T use subs, but weight and bulkiness are their downside.

With powered (I have stopped recommending passive tops for almost all setups) 10"/12" tops and a matching sub (small for small gigs and large for large ones) you can cover most anything < 500 people. Powered tops give you instantaneous backup .. one goes down, the other continues while you might have to change it out .. amps don't give you that.

I would opt for 2 pairs of 12" tops .. gives lots of flexibility.
 
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I also recommend four 8"-12" tops over a pair of loud 15" tops. Just make sure you can get them far enough apart to not have to many cancellation issues. When I do a large gym or convention center I use four tops and get a really wide spread on them. It helps me to fill the room with more sound, without any single too loud source.
 
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Good points everyone. My usual tops are a pair of the cheap Carvin 3-ways. I really can't beef anything about them. They sound great and that mid-range really fills in the hole that's in a lot of 2-ways. My gripe is they're bulky/heavy and I don't normally haul an extra pair in, so I don't have built-in backup on hand. At 8-ohms, they're also only pulling 650 watts per cabinet out of my Crown xti4002 amp. I'm considering:

Electro Voice Evid 4.2 PA - Have only heard them in a showroom so don't know how far they're throw in larger rooms. I think they will definitely have a "cool" factor with the brides and would be very easy to hide around the room.

Peavey PR10/12 - I know these are cheap speakers but doggone if the pair I use for ceremonies just don't sound good and these things are paper lightweight as well as rugged. Like Carvin, I cringe at the notion of anyone actually seeing the name tag so I'd bag them in speaker condoms.

EV ZX190 - I have a pair of actives and I believe Ray is dead on about how great these little boxes are. Small boxes that can be hidden easily and lightweight.

If I go to 4, smaller speakers then I'm typically doubling my coverage area. Additionally, that also pushes my Crown to 1200 watts into 2 speakers instead of 650 watts into a single cabinet. I'm not typically having to push the current config so it seems logical I could even cool it off more and probably have cleaner tone with the 4 cab setup. Incidentally Steve, I keep a spare power amp loaded in my rack. If I have a failure on the amp I can re-patch in seconds and be back in business. BTW, I've got a gig this week at a country club, on a back patio. Think I'll take the PR10s and do some comparisons with the 3-ways.
 
The Evids are for background music in restaurants and such .. dual 4" woofers just aren't going to generate enough low/mid to cover much. You'd have to put up a dozen of them.

Not a fan of the Peaveys (though only heard once) .. the ZLX are fine, but for a few bucks more, I would opt for the Yamaha DXR line.

update (noticed you had ZX) .. good box and one of the best 8" boxes .. I would still go to the Yamahas at 10" and maybe the EV ETX/JBL PRX for the mains on a larger system.
 
I love Yammys but am still inclined to stay passive on my tops. I'd be looking at having to scrounge up 4 power plugs if I went that route. I like the PRX series and installed a pair of 15 passives last year. They're good boxes but we're talking $2k to rig out 2 pairs and they're still 35lbs each and fairly bulky.
 
I traded in a pair of ZX1 passive with covers when I went ETX at the Sam Ash in Nashville, you might check to see if they still have them. They looked like they just came out of the box. I still have a pair in my studio, with a single TX 18" sub, but they are not for sale, I will be listening to them when I stop DJing, that is how good they sound to me.
 
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I love Yammys but am still inclined to stay passive on my tops. I'd be looking at having to scrounge up 4 power plugs if I went that route. I like the PRX series and installed a pair of 15 passives last year. They're good boxes but we're talking $2k to rig out 2 pairs and they're still 35lbs each and fairly bulky.

I use duo cables out to my speakers (bundled AC and audio XLR) ... single cable to the sub and jumper up to the tops.
 
Steve I invested in the combo PWR/XLR cords and I love them. I get power to the sub, with a Furman strip right behind the sub. Then I run a single XLR to the sub, wherever it is located. I use a Y connector to go into the sub and make all my jumps from there. If it is just tops then they plug into the XLR out on the sub and the Furman with combo cables. If it is multiple subs, I have jumper kits built up with all the cables needed.
 
I generally place the tops above the subs .. smallest footprint. Right now my jumper up to the top is two cables velcroed together .. going to buy a 15' duo cable, cut it in half and add connectors so it is one physical cable going up to the tops. Actually, I might buy a Gepco or similar 100' cable and cut it up 2 make 2 7.5 footers and a pair of 40+ footers. Then I'll have 25 and 40 foot sections to use as necessary.
 
One set of tops that intrigues me .. though I haven't seen them to hear them .. is the new Presonus StudioLive 328AI .. dual 8" woofers and a 8"/compression horn coaxial midrange/HF unit .. so a 3 way, with 4 speakers, controllable DSP and a 4x500w amp system. A little pricey ($1300ish) but reviews have been very good.

PRS%20SLS328AI.jpg
 
The have a studio line .. these were designed for live sound use .. as to road-worthyness .. not sure .. haven't seen them in person .. waiting for Sam Ash or GC to get in a pair.

They appear to be duratex coated and made of 15mm Baltic Birch plywood.

http://www.presonus.com/products/StudioLive-328AI

presonus_studiolive_328ai-back_big.jpg
 
Not sure why you can't scale down web graphics ... :)

I do like Presonus products. Currently use a AudioBox USB as one of my "sound cards" and used to have a 16ch digital mixer (StudioLive 16.4.2) which, except for no flying faders, was pretty nice and very quiet.
 
Just fodder for discussion. We're talking weddings. In a biamp setup, would you prefer 2 heavy, bulkier tops (45lbs-15") or 4 smaller, lighter weight cabinets which have a wider spread? I'm finding more and more of my gigs are in larger rooms and often with a wider spread of guest seating. I also get a bit tired of hoisting 45lb cabs up onto a speaker pole. Just being curious.
So that you don't accuse me of just always picking on you I will give you my suggestion.
I play in large Venues because its true what they say in Texas, things are bigger. With the exception of the Hip Hop Events that I do, my Bose 802s give me all the coverage I ever need. You may want to look into the new ones as my Bose design is older. Conventional boxes don't give you a 100x120 dispersion pattern like the Bose.

12" and 15" speakers installed as woofers are not designed for Mids and Highs. So in a Bi amped, 2 way system, a lot of that Mid and High Frequency is further filtered by the Cabinet's Crossover (Active or Passive). The Bose 802 does not have any onboard crossovers or filters. It is simply 8 Drivers designed for Mids and Highs which is what you want to be reproduced. Besides which, it is an Articulated Array. It will give a more natural tone for Mids and Highs than most conventional boxes
.
A 10" 2 way as Tops, will sound ok but only at low volumes. They tend to get shrill, like wind going through tin foil, at higher SPLs. If you go the Bose Route, get it's Controller (Electronic Crossover) to go with it. Add your Yorkville and you are good to go. The Profile is much nicer for asthetics as it is small, curved and horizontal, not tall and rectangular as conventional boxes.
Last weekend I used a JBL MRX518S sub with the Bose. All I can say was "Incredible Sound" smooth and clean.

Remember how well your Bose L1 Towers sounded with the other Bass cabinet? The Bose tops are known for their clarity.
 
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So that you don't accuse me of just always picking on you I will give you my suggestion.
I play in large Venues because its true what they say in Texas, things are bigger. With the exception of the Hip Hop Events that I do, my Bose 802s give me all the coverage I ever need. You may want to look into the new ones as my Bose design is older. Conventional boxes don't give you a 100x120 dispersion pattern like the Bose.

12" and 15" speakers installed as woofers are not designed for Mids and Highs. So in a Bi amped, 2 way system, a lot of that Mid and High Frequency is further filtered by the Cabinet's Crossover (Active or Passive). The Bose 802 does not have any onboard crossovers or filters. It is simply 8 Drivers designed for Mids and Highs which is what you want to be reproduced. Besides which, it is an Articulated Array. It will give a more natural tone for Mids and Highs than most conventional boxes
.
A 10" 2 way as Tops, will sound ok but only at low volumes. They tend to get shrill, like wind going through tin foil, at higher SPLs. If you go the Bose Route, get it's Controller (Electronic Crossover) to go with it. Add your Yorkville and you are good to go. The Profile is much nicer for asthetics as it is small, curved and horizontal, not tall and rectangular as conventional boxes.
Last weekend I used a JBL MRX518S sub with the Bose. All I can say was "Incredible Sound" smooth and clean.

Remember how well your Bose L1 Towers sounded with the other Bass cabinet? The Bose tops are known for their clarity.

Bose (on the 802 page) says their active equalizer for the 802s is required for optimal performance, so the unit can be said to have an external crossover .. so not much can be ascribed to the sentences "The Bose 802 does not have any onboard crossovers or filters. It is simply 8 Drivers designed for Mids and Highs which is what you want to be reproduced." It gets a filtered signal either way.

There is no one RIGHT answer .. there are many good answers.
 
No highs, no lows it must be BOSE :)

I do think the Bose 802 is a very good mid range speaker, but I don't think it is near as good sounding as a quality, horn loaded compression driver on the highs.