I stuck to my guns and I'm very happy!

[MIXMASTERMACHOM]

I had a special meeting to make on Saturday. When I got there a member came up to me and said she wanted to talk to me. I told her we could talk after the meeting. So once the meeting was over we went and had a conversation.

She planning on giving herself a 50th birthday party. We talked and she said she didn't have a venue yet to hold the party. She said she wanted to have it in one of the VFW Halls either in or near Newark, NJ. She said her budget for the hall was $1,200.00 and did I know of some places? I told her yes. The party is to be in September and it's to be for 5 hours. She wanted to know how much would I charge to do the party. I gave her a price. She then went and asked me if I knew a certain DJ. I never heard of that DJ. Then she mentioned another DJ who we've worked together a couple of times. He's a damn good DJ.

She mentioned the price he gave her to do it. His price was cheaper then mine. I know why she mentioned that. She wanted to see if I would under cut that DJ's price. I decided not to renegotiate on my price. Just leave it where it was at. She know how good I am because she has seen me play before. I got her email address and sent her an email on Sunday. I told her in the email I would look out for her a place that she can have the party. In the email I kept the price the same. I decided to try to give her an incentive to book us that for the price I gave her I would bring the lighted facade.

I'm just happy I did something different instead of what I've done in the past and look to give a better price just to get the booking. So it's up to her if she wants me or she wants to fine another DJ who will do it for less.

 

[rhythmgj]

Alright Mix! You've got to hold the line, bro. I saw that stuff for years as a musician; it doesn't help any of us make a living, and it doesn't help the clients in the end. We just train them to keep cheaping the price down until finally they are literally hiring no-experience, bargain-basement wannabes. Then we have just negotiated ourselves (long-term) out of a gig!!

GJ

 

[MIXMASTERMACHOM]

I might win the gigs that way but at what expense? I do it for a cheap price and the word gets out I'll do gigs for a cheap price. Basically keeping me stuck in the same position not being able to move up the price scale. I did it this time. I just need to keep this practice up.

 

[Ausumm]

Ahhh....you have learned well, grasshopper.

Missing out on a gig because you refused to drop your pants does NOT make you feel bad.
(at least, not as bad as getting a reputation for being cheap)

 

[B-Sharp]

Good job sticking to your guns... if she hires you. Until she has a venue picked out, nothing is certain.

I decided to try to give her an incentive to book us that for the price I gave her I would bring the lighted facade.

Not to nitpick, but that's not a good enough incentive for someone to book you. A lighted facade doesn't do anything for the client or their party. Instead, you might want to offer something like some LED disco sticks or glow necklaces... stuff that guests love and get to keep that she'd otherwise have to go out and buy on her own.

 

[Proformance]

Not to nitpick, but that's not a good enough incentive for someone to book you. A lighted facade doesn't do anything for the client or their party. Instead, you might want to offer something like some LED disco sticks or glow necklaces... stuff that guests love and get to keep that she'd otherwise have to go out and buy on her own.

I disagree, at least with the notion of what to offer as an incentive. Glow sticks are an expense - no different than lowering your price. More importantly - they are readily available to anyone to order online at really cheap prices so it makes the DJ appear short on actual professional resources. (i.e.: the item offered is no more special or exclusive than toothpaste.) It is also an adult party and light up novelties are kids toys - which might appear as the DJ not listening to the customer.

The light up facade does not cost him anything to add if he already owns it. The offer contributes to the sale without lowering his bottom line, and is an item not readily available to consumers. One can argue that it has no more value at an adult party than glow-sticks however, the important aspect with regard to getting your price is to use what you already have rather than taking on additional expenses that lower your margin.

 

[ittigger]

I disagree, at least with the notion of what to offer as an incentive. Glow sticks are an expense - no different than lowering your price. More importantly - they are readily available to anyone to order online at really cheap prices so it makes the DJ appear short on actual professional resources. (i.e.: the item offered is no more special or exclusive than toothpaste.) It is also an adult party and light up novelties are kids toys - which might appear as the DJ not listening to the customer.

The light up facade does not cost him anything to add if he already owns it. The offer contributes to the sale without lowering his bottom line, and is an item not readily available to consumers. One can argue that it has no more value at an adult party than glow-sticks however, the important aspect with regard to getting your price is to use what you already have rather than taking on additional expenses that lower your margin.

For me, this is another one of those 'I see both sides of the coin' things. Believe it or not Bob, I know some adults that go crazy for the glow sticks .. and though anyone CAN get them, they often don't think about it. From the other side, offering some kind of 'upgrade' (that you already own) may help. That 'some kind' could be a few party lights. A lighted facade wouldn't do anything for me. Party lights might. I also like glow sticks. I would only offer something that didn't require much work - example, 2 party lights.

If you've already made your offer, DO NOT go back and change it - you'll make it look bad and you'll start making her question things.

 

[B-Sharp]

I disagree, at least with the notion of what to offer as an incentive. Glow sticks are an expense - no different than lowering your price. More importantly - they are readily available to anyone to order online at really cheap prices so it makes the DJ appear short on actual professional resources. (i.e.: the item offered is no more special or exclusive than toothpaste.) It is also an adult party and light up novelties are kids toys - which might appear as the DJ not listening to the customer.

Glow necklaces are, on average, $20 for a tube of 50. While they are an expense, it's a very small expense. Compare spending $20 to lowering your price by $100, and suddenly a $20 expense is the better option. ittigger got it right - some adults go crazy for glow stuff... and the room is going to be dark, because it's an adult party. When everyone in the room is wearing a glow necklace that you handed them, you've made a connection that could very well turn into future business. It's well worth your $20 investment.

The light up facade does not cost him anything to add if he already owns it. The offer contributes to the sale without lowering his bottom line, and is an item not readily available to consumers. One can argue that it has no more value at an adult party than glow-sticks however, the important aspect with regard to getting your price is to use what you already have rather than taking on additional expenses that lower your margin.

Mix was probably going to bring that facade along regardless. It's the coolest item he owns and it also makes his setup more presentable, but it's never going to be the deciding factor for whether or not he gets hired. There's a simple reason why lighted facades aren't readily available to consumers. Consumers have no need for them.

 

[Proformance]

..to each his own. This is a 50th Birthday - and glow necklaces can be rather "tacky" especially here where most DJs include them unsolicited. Since it's a VFW hall I'd throw in a handful of conventional Par38s as uplights - which also costs me nothing and does far more for the space. The suggestion may even prompt the client to pay to have more lighting.

 

[ittigger]

..to each his own. This is a 50th Birthday - and glow necklaces can be rather "tacky" especially here where most DJs include them unsolicited. Since it's a VFW hall I'd throw in a handful of conventional Par38s as uplights - which also costs me nothing and does far more for the space. The suggestion may even prompt the client to pay to have more lighting.

YMMV Bob, but I know many 40+ that go crazy for the glow bracelets, necklaces and sticks. You are free to think it's tacky if you want, but I have plenty of crowds of every age that love them.

As shown, I also embrace your idea with the lights, though I don't know if I would have thrown in a bunch of uplights - as there is a cost for that even though you own them. Time is money. I might have included some (1 or 2) intelligent fixtures. I don't know if I would use a Par38 as an uplight. Par56 or Par64 maybe - but not a 38. I don't think it's enough light. IMO, if you're going to do it, do it right.

 

[Proformance]

As shown, I also embrace your idea with the lights, though I don't know if I would have thrown in a bunch of uplights - as there is a cost for that even though you own them. Time is money. I might have included some (1 or 2) intelligent fixtures. I don't know if I would use a Par38 as an uplight. Par56 or Par64 maybe - but not a 38. I don't think it's enough light. IMO, if you're going to do it, do it right.

Ha! While you hold out to "do it right" - I'm actually getting it done for $$$.

There's no cost as you suggest. Stop thinking cheap (breakable and DOA) DJ class 10mm LED - and wrap your brain around a conventional par 38. A handful of old-skool 90w uplights takes about 10 minutes to drop (time I'm on site anyway) and is perfect for ceilings 8-12 feet high.

I still have some 85 conventional par cans in a variety of sizes (Par16, 38, 56), types (short & long), and colors (black, white, chrome, aluminum). They paid for themselves many times over at least 15-20 years ago, and continue to bring in revenue or enhance a sale. Simple lighting leads to more and better upsells, expansions of the job, or referrals.

Glow sticks lead nowhere - there's no revenue potential because the cheap, cheap, cheap source is available to everyone, on any given day.

 

[B-Sharp]

Glow sticks lead nowhere - there's no revenue potential because the cheap, cheap, cheap source is available to everyone, on any given day.

Indeed they are... and to the average partygoer, they're also more fun than par cans. Keep in mind that applying this dialog to Mix's situation is pointless, because he doesn't own any uplights to begin with. This conversation isn't really about revenue potentials... it's about how Mix isn't going to get this gig because he offered a free lighted facade. A lighted facade is not enough of a "gimme" to the client.

I suggested that glow necklaces would be a better incentive because it's something that the client either a) hadn't considered, or b) was going to buy anyways. Everybody over the age of 2 knows what glow necklaces are. Very few people care what a lighted facade is or does. Any DJ can offer free uplighting.

At the end of the day, the planets will have to align perfectly for Mix to get this gig. Whatever his price is (with or without incentives) and where the party is held (either in a nice, safe VFW or a trouble-plagued bar in Newark), as well as what his partner's friend's girlfriend is doing that night will be what determines whether or not he gets hired, and whether or not he chooses to actually do the job.

 

[Proformance]

Indeed they are... and to the average partygoer, they're also more fun than par cans. Keep in mind that applying this dialog to Mix's situation is pointless, because he doesn't own any uplights to begin with. This conversation isn't really about revenue potentials... it's about how Mix isn't going to get this gig because he offered a free lighted facade. A lighted facade is not enough of a "gimme" to the client.

I suggested that glow necklaces would be a better incentive because it's something that the client either a) hadn't considered, or b) was going to buy anyways. Everybody over the age of 2 knows what glow necklaces are. Very few people care what a lighted facade is or does. Any DJ can offer free uplighting.

At the end of the day, the planets will have to align perfectly for Mix to get this gig. Whatever his price is (with or without incentives) and where the party is held (either in a nice, safe VFW or a trouble-plagued bar in Newark), as well as what his partner's friend's girlfriend is doing that night will be what determines whether or not he gets hired, and whether or not he chooses to actually do the job.

Here's how your theory plays out in the real world:

The client takes your suggestion and buys her own glow-sticks. A glow stick is a glow stick no matter who she hires!​

I'd prefer that he offer something in the way of skill or experience - but, as long as you're all hooked on selling commodities, I'd go with the facade. It's something many DJs won't offer and it's not readily available to her from elsewhere. In fact, if he brands it with the birthday boy/girl's name and "Happy Birthday" - it will make your cheap glow sticks sound totally lame.

 

[B-Sharp]

Perhaps you're right - I was only offering an opinion. Truthfully, I don't offer any type of incentive to potential clients who are comparing my services to what other DJs offer; I'd rather be assured that they're hiring me for my talent and not because I offered them free stuff.

 

[ittigger]

Ha! While you hold out to "do it right" - I'm actually getting it done for $$$.

There's no cost as you suggest. Stop thinking cheap (breakable and DOA) DJ class 10mm LED - and wrap your brain around a conventional par 38. A handful of old-skool 90w uplights takes about 10 minutes to drop (time I'm on site anyway) and is perfect for ceilings 8-12 feet high.

I still have some 85 conventional par cans in a variety of sizes (Par16, 38, 56), types (short & long), and colors (black, white, chrome, aluminum). They paid for themselves many times over at least 15-20 years ago, and continue to bring in revenue or enhance a sale. Simple lighting leads to more and better upsells, expansions of the job, or referrals.

Glow sticks lead nowhere - there's no revenue potential because the cheap, cheap, cheap source is available to everyone, on any given day.

I'm getting it done for $$$ too. Why else would we be in this biz?

I'm not thinking cheap - so don't even try to go there. There IS a cost as I suggest - if you choose to ignore it, that's your own issue. If you choose to absorb the cost, that's also your issue. I wouldn't do it. I would add 1 or 2 intelligent lights before I decided to add uplights. Likewise, my equipment has paid for itself many times over as well. You have your way of offering things as do I. There's nothing wrong with either way so stop trying to turn it into a competition.

FWIW, people care about and remember your uplights about as much as they remember the glow sticks, so you're not helping yourself there.

Like Brendan, I don't typically offer incentive's to land a job .. and haven't needed them. I was offering an opinion as well.

 

[Proformance]

I'm getting it done for $$$ too. Why else would we be in this biz?

I'm not thinking cheap - so don't even try to go there. There IS a cost as I suggest - if you choose to ignore it, that's your own issue. If you choose to absorb the cost, that's also your issue. I wouldn't do it. I would add 1 or 2 intelligent lights before I decided to add uplights. Likewise, my equipment has paid for itself many times over as well. You have your way of offering things as do I. There's nothing wrong with either way so stop trying to turn it into a competition.

FWIW, people care about and remember your uplights about as much as they remember the glow sticks, so you're not helping yourself there.

Like Brendan, I don't typically offer incentive's to land a job .. and haven't needed them. I was offering an opinion as well.

Honestly, you should quit making lame excuses just to win an argument.
Up lights mean nothing to customers? What planet have you been living on? How could you not notice the current popularity of up lighting, props/furniture that glow, etc.?

Intelligent lights? Please - that's labor along with even more gear or rigging to support and operate them - definitely not anything I would "throw in."

A par 38 can fits 4 to a box the size of a milk crate and weighs 2 lbs. No effort, fixtures were $11 each dealer cost. Rentals alone accounted for some $45k a year in the pre-LED era so, whatever cost you are concerned about has long since been capitalized many times over. The lights serve no other regular purpose now - save but, low cost uplighting. This is what it means to "throw something in" that costs you nothing but offers value to a potential client. No extra time, no added expense - just a closed sale and happy customer getting more for their money.

 

[rhythmgj]

I just think it's funny that Mix's good decision turned into a referendum on glow-sticks...

GJ

 

[MIXMASTERMACHOM]

Pro let me say I loved your original post on here. That was my thinking. Give her something that would only cost us to transport and setup the lighted facade. No way for that price I gave her was I going to spend any of my own money to do this gig other then the gas I had to burn to get there.

I didn't mention the price I quoted her because some would beat me down saying that is too low. I'll tell you what that is and show a picture of the setup I was looking to bring. The price was $450.00 for the 5 hours. When I gave her that price she told me she was still shopping. At that point I should wished her well with who she gets. Here is a picture of a setup at a class reunion we did.

Keep in mind his price was less then mine.

 

[B-Sharp]

After seeing the photo, I stand by my statement that a lighted facade is not enough of a "gimme". Also, DJ Kel called and wants his laptop back.

Maybe if it looked like THIS...



Whoops, there's still some wires showing. Try THIS...

 

[ittigger]

Honestly, you should quit making lame excuses just to win an argument.
Up lights mean nothing to customers? What planet have you been living on? How could you not notice the current popularity of up lighting, props/furniture that glow, etc.?

Intelligent lights? Please - that's labor along with even more gear or rigging to support and operate them - definitely not anything I would "throw in."

A par 38 can fits 4 to a box the size of a milk crate and weighs 2 lbs. No effort, fixtures were $11 each dealer cost. Rentals alone accounted for some $45k a year in the pre-LED era so, whatever cost you are concerned about has long since been capitalized many times over. The lights serve no other regular purpose now - save but, low cost uplighting. This is what it means to "throw something in" that costs you nothing but offers value to a potential client. No extra time, no added expense - just a closed sale and happy customer getting more for their money.

Really Bob? Lame excuses? You must be an insecure individual to feel that you have to constantly attack and put down people. You know very little about me but toss out some quite large assumptions and accusations. Is this your magical display of hospitality that you speak so highly of? FWIW, I'm not trying to 'win' any argument. I'm trying to show more options.

When speaking to a customer and offering them a handful of uplights OR a few intelligent fixtures as an incentive, I'm pretty sure I know which they will pick. Putting an intelligent fixture out takes no more time than 1 or 2 uplights (its the same amount of labor) - and yes, uplights mean little to nothing to a customer / guest unless you are specifically pointing it out. Take a poll next time and I guarantee you that FEW will remember you brought a handful of par 38 uplights. For some, glow sticks also work - you'd obviously be surprised by this .. but then again, you admit 'the current popularity of up lighting, props/furniture that glow, etc.' - so it seems that you know this already. Do you fight with yourself often?

A par 38 can fits 4 to a box the size of a milk crate and weighs 2 lbs. No effort, fixtures were $11 each dealer cost. This is what it means to "throw something in" that costs you nothing but offers value to a potential client. No extra time, no added expense - just a closed sale and happy customer getting more for their money.

An LED fixture weighs about the same or less and provides more excitement than lighting up a wall - and again, little to no effort. I'm not sure what this 'difference' you claim is. In addition, as Brendan said, glow sticks are more fun than uplights and require even less work:

Indeed they are... and to the average partygoer, they're also more fun than par cans.

I suggested that glow necklaces would be a better incentive because it's something that the client either a) hadn't considered, or b) was going to buy anyways. Everybody over the age of 2 knows what glow necklaces are.