First Contract issue ever with a client.

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It would be interesting to hear the viewpoint of professional wedding photographers on this subject. While I am sure they probably get permission from the Bride and Groom to use their photos for their advertising, do they also get the permission of everyone in the wedding party if they use those or for the same argument if they post a photo of the entire congregation during the ceremony do they get permission from all those people? It just does not seem plausible to me.
 
It would be interesting to hear the viewpoint of professional wedding photographers on this subject. While I am sure they probably get permission from the Bride and Groom to use their photos for their advertising, do they also get the permission of everyone in the wedding party if they use those or for the same argument if they post a photo of the entire congregation during the ceremony do they get permission from all those people? It just does not seem plausible to me.
The expectation of a Professional Photographer in attendance is more probable than that of an Amateur or in this case of argument a DJ running around snapping pictures when he should be doing his job. Usually the Photographer has the rights to the Photography and are more likely to publish Photos of the Bride and Groom, not a bunch of strangers dancing.
 
The expectation of a Professional Photographer in attendance is more probable than that of an Amateur or in this case of argument a DJ running around snapping pictures when he should be doing his job. Usually the Photographer has the rights to the Photography and are more likely to publish Photos of the Bride and Groom, not a bunch of strangers dancing.
"Expectation" and "More Likely" do not really answer the questions for the scenario I proposed above. If even the "Professional" photographer were to use pictures of an entire wedding party or the guests (say they are in the background during a ceremony shot and recognizable) did they get those other people's signed permission?
 
Ron, with all due respect. One person's wrong doing does not make yours right! Worry about yourself not others. Look at what your clause in the contract caused! Why does photography even have to be in your contract? You are a DJ, that is what they hired you to do! Why open a can of worms?
The problem is not in the picture taking, (even though some people take exception to someone who they don't know pointing a Camera in their direction), it is in the publishing of said photos for commercial purposes, wherein the problem lies.
A guest can take photos and publish it on their Facebook page, that is acceptable. You however, are not a Guest. You are a service provider at the event. No difference to a Maid pointing a camera at guests.
 
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Reason goes out the window when there is money involved.

Take the Coca-Cola example. It's a multi-million dollar advertising campaign an the benefits are already being reaped. Editors, graphic designers, print and broadcast media are all getting paid, Coke sales are getting a boost - but, no one has compensated you for the modelling shot that made it all happen.

You gonna just tell them to stop using it?

The divorce case; the ex is angry as hell and just wants a piece of somebody. You are an easy target. Think they'll be "reasonable" just because the money isn't millions?

You just never know when you're going to step on a bee-hive or that piece of gum that sticks to your shoe. It pays to tread carefully.

The issue of a major vendor such as Coca-Cola using an un-authorized image would be relatively easy to monetize. Trying to prove that your image, posted on a DJ's website, gained him/her a pot full of money is likely going to be hugely difficult if not impossible. I believe there's also an issue of the shot containing a single "model" versus the typical group shot. Even when posting pics of kids, it's my understanding that the child must be singled out in order for it to be actionable.

As for the divorce case, sure, some jerk who wants to blame you for his/her indiscretions might come after you but proving and then successfully monetizing the damages are highly unlikely. In weighing out the risks versus rewards, promo shots wins every time in my book.
 
Some Burglars get away with robbing peoples homes......until the day they are caught!
 
I am working with a Diva photographer that I helped start out in the biz with tons of referrals, not any more... The B&G want me to make an announcement before today's ceremony saying, well... here, I'll just copy and paste right from the groom's email. "Before the ceremony starts it is important for the guests to be informed that it is requested that they refrain from taking any kind of photos during the duration of the ceremony. That includes all cameras and cellphones."
 
I am working with a Diva photographer that I helped start out in the biz with tons of referrals, not any more... The B&G want me to make an announcement before today's ceremony saying, well... here, I'll just copy and paste right from the groom's email. "Before the ceremony starts it is important for the guests to be informed that it is requested that they refrain from taking any kind of photos during the duration of the ceremony. That includes all cameras and cellphones."
I would cringe at having to make statement. I would since my clients requested it, I understand why, I do not like being at weddings and seeing someone someone hold up their ipad to snap photos.
 
I'll step in on the stock photo thought. It's fake, posed and not what your work is helping to make happen. When couples look at pictures, they don't want to see a stock image, they want to see the venue they're using.
 
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Where does one assume that DJs are taking hundreds of pictures? Rick's wife is a photog, so she may. Me, maybe a dozen or 2 .. some of my setup, some of the crowd .. never had an issue.
 
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I'll step in on the stock photo thought. It's fake, posed and not what your work is helping to make happen. When couples look at pictures, they don't want to see a stock image, they want to see the venue they're using.
Not all stock images are fake. When a Photographer takes Live Shots at a wedding, those shots can be sold as Stock Photos. There are Photography studios here in Houston where you can go and see actual photos of real people at real weddings. The Photographer will be more than willing to sell those photos.
To expand your argument, when a DJ takes photos of an Event and Post it like most of you do on this Forum, if the Photos are just of strangers dancing, how is a potential client to know that those photos did not come from somewhere else other than what one is proclaiming? So there can still be a question mark. The most Credible Photo would be the ones where the DJ is part of the photo.
 
I'll step in on the stock photo thought. It's fake, posed and not what your work is helping to make happen. When couples look at pictures, they don't want to see a stock image, they want to see the venue they're using.

And they want to see pretty Brides, good-looking Grooms and attractive people in those pics. Those pics sell dates, period.

BTW Steve, I average 100-150 shots during an evening myself, most from my DJ position. The wife averages 400+ shots when she's working the room.
 
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Not all stock images are fake. When a Photographer takes Live Shots at a wedding, those shots can be sold as Stock Photos. There are Photography studios here in Houston where you can go and see actual photos of real people at real weddings. The Photographer will be more than willing to sell those photos.
To expand your argument, when a DJ takes photos of an Event and Post it like most of you do on this Forum, if the Photos are just of strangers dancing, how is a potential client to know that those photos did not come from somewhere else other than what one is proclaiming? So there can still be a question mark. The most Credible Photo would be the ones where the DJ is part of the photo.

A potential client can tell if the pictures are yours or not by the first handshake and the first 10 seconds.
 
Seems like a lot of people trying to rationalize their unethical behavior. The issue is not "taking photos" - the issue is what you do, or intend to do, with the photo. Advertising without a model release (publishing, web, broadcasting, signage) is an infringing use. Having a portfolio of the shots in your office to share with customers is not.

To pretend your "special case" is unique because you only take group shots, you don't rake in a lot of money, or because everyone is doing it, is pretty lame. Ethics are about what you do even when you know you're not likely to get punished.

Stock photos are not a lie - they are an illustration; no different than staging/posing a photo at your favorite venue, with your best setup, and one of your satisfied customers.
 
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It would be interesting to hear the viewpoint of professional wedding photographers on this subject. While I am sure they probably get permission from the Bride and Groom to use their photos for their advertising, do they also get the permission of everyone in the wedding party if they use those or for the same argument if they post a photo of the entire congregation during the ceremony do they get permission from all those people? It just does not seem plausible to me.

A model release is usually part of every photographer's contract; a clause that is obviously first to be stricken by celebrity clients and other savvy service buyers.

...and Yes, if the photographer decides to use a photo as advertising, or sell the photo to stock libraries - he should have a model release from any prominent model (clearly identifiable person) in the photo. You can buy stock photos where the photographer did not obtain those releases but, you publish them online at your own risk.
 
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I would have absolutely zero interest in stock photos on my website. Real or otherwise, they're not anything I was a part of.
We make a point to say that all photos on our website are from our actual events -- and I wouldn't have it any other way.
 
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I would have absolutely zero interest in stock photos on my website. Real or otherwise, they're not anything I was a part of.
We make a point to say that all photos on our website are from our actual events -- and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Stock photos illustrate messages about realizing new individualized future opportunity and potential. Your approach only catalogs the limited choices of other people's history. I prefer the right mix of both, stock illustration and proven past experience.
 
Stock photos illustrate messages about realizing new individualized future opportunity and potential. Your approach only catalogs the limited choices of other people's history. I prefer the right mix of both, stock illustration and proven past experience.

To me, and what I think is the perception of the average bride, stock photos scream "FAKE!" In my experience, the girls want the comfort of knowing you've actually worked in their venue and they want to see photos of gorgeous setups, and gorgeous brides, where they imagine themselves in the photos. I've also noticed a definite uptick in girls that actually want to be featured on my websites. It seems to give them a feeling of celebrity to think that other brides will be oohing and aahing over their event.
 
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To me, and what I think is the perception of the average bride, stock photos scream "FAKE!" In my experience, the girls want the comfort of knowing you've actually worked in their venue and they want to see photos of gorgeous setups, and gorgeous brides, where they imagine themselves in the photos. I've also noticed a definite uptick in girls that actually want to be featured on my websites. It seems to give them a feeling of celebrity to think that other brides will be oohing and aahing over their event.

Good Lawd help us! Now we have a Celebrity DJ who uses Winamp and the pretty brides are beating a path to his door so they can be featured on his Website. Talk about a misplaced ego!!!!!!

Quote from above: "In my experience, the girls want the comfort of knowing you've actually worked in their venue and they want to see photos of gorgeous setups...." What if you have never worked at the Venue in Question ?To what gorgeous setups are you referring, the other Vendors wares, Florists Vases, Baker's Cakes, Caterer's Food, Strangers dancing? Those are the only pics I ever see you posting.
........Ppppppllllleeeeeeeaaaaaassssssseeeeeeee!
 
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