I know, if only people had the honor to stand by their word. I love the fact that we've done business with a vendor for 3 years now and the only agreement we made was our word and a handshake. Of course in order to do that, you have to be dealing with honorable people.
First Contract issue ever with a client.
- Thread starter Ron
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I know, if only people had the honor to stand by their word. I love the fact that we've done business with a vendor for 3 years now and the only agreement we made was our word and a handshake. Of course in order to do that, you have to be dealing with honorable people.
I do that quite often there are many I have been dealing with a long time long before I ever used a contract I'm not about to ask them to sign one and people I know very well. I do use a contract on most weddings with people I don't know.
Personally if someone didn't want pictures taken I wouldn't take them but I wouldn't change MY contract to suit the photographer or anyone else. If they feel that big about it change theirs...I also wouldn't change it to get the gig do it once and you create a history try that on for size in court later on....And yes I have had this situation before (client cutting up contract) and at the end refused the gig
All this fuss just to take Pics of strangers dancing! You see one you see all. Take Pics of your Gear Setup instead. Show how it fits in and blends in the room. That is more relevant. You can buy professional Stock Photos anywhere. Even from the same Photographer.
You're just wrong and the above illustrates your lack of business acumen, when it come to weddings. Showing pictures of elegant events, with happy/laughing/dancing people is what sells brides. When they see the emotion and joy at other events it makes them want the same thing at their event. I've never yet met a bride who was impressed by a sound system picture. Photos are gold in booking weddings.
I see that you did not fully comprehend what I wrote. Allow me to explain! I did not mean just Gear Photos to show DJs on Forums like this one. I meant the Gear Photos as a visual aid to show Clients and Venues to see how you can blend and fit in the room. That works for me. I can sell, I don't need pics of strangers to sell a Gig.
Secondly, as a Professional, one can employ other Professionals and their services and products to satisfy your needs. I have never had a problem getting pics from the Photographers at an Event. They warm up to you more when you fully respect them and not get in their way. Professional Stock Photos can be bought anywhere, including the Photographer at the Event. So showing Pics of strangers at an Event does not necessarily mean that those people were at one's Event.
I am not knocking your way of how you market yourself. It is a known fact that you are an Order Taker and rely on your Website and pretty pictures to do the selling for you. Some people market their business in a more "personal" way.
My point is, why make a book out of a simple DJ Contract to include clauses that are questionable and may cause one to lose the Gig? I was under the belief that the focus of a DJ would be on the music not the collection of photos at an event.
different
Agree with both of you, people can choose to market in different ways, as along as they are successful, good for them.
As far as complicated vs simpler contracts... well usually contracts grow larger over time based on experience. Again I believe a contract is to clearly outline responsibilities for each party. Some parties need their responsibilities more clearly outlined than others to avoid any conflict. Since you do not always know the caliber or moral / ethical standards of the people you deal with, it is best to make the outlines clear. I have a regular gig I have been doing for years.. no contract ever needed, but that is not always the case. YMMV
Just my $0.02
I agree with the client's actions.
When you send someone a contract it is legally nothing more than an OFFER. There is nothing unusual about their desire to negotiate the terms. Obviously, you are not required to negotiate your terms and where you specify that no such change can be made it's called an adhesion contract.
Adhesion terms do not always stand up as well to enforcement as do terms that have been negotiated and agreed upon by the client. Something to consider.
I think their terms are quite reasonable, and actually much more sensible than those which you presented. I would have made the same changes.
As for the partial deposit - it demonstrates sincerity of intent pending changes to the terms so again I see no real issue with that.
I agree with the client's actions.
When you send someone a contract it is legally nothing more than an OFFER. There is nothing unusual about their desire to negotiate the terms. Obviously, you are not required to negotiate your terms and where you specify that no such change can be made it's called an adhesion contract.
Adhesion terms do not always stand up as well to enforcement as do terms that have been negotiated and agreed upon by the client. Something to consider.
I think their terms are quite reasonable, and actually much more sensible than those which you presented. I would have made the same changes.
As for the partial deposit - it demonstrates sincerity of intent pending changes to the terms so again I see no real issue with that.
FYI: You really shouldn't be using photos of people on your website without a valid model release. The model is the person in the photo - not the bride who invited them.
You may, as is done in journalism approach a subject you just photographed, note their identity and request permission to use their image. This is better- however, due to the fact that alcohol is being served and it's a party where no one expects to be modelling for advertising - the consent is easily contestable should a privacy issue arise.
What's the worst privacy issue you could face?
You photograph a guy dancing romantically with his mistress at a wedding his wife isn't privy too - and when her attorney uses it to win her a big financial award in divorce - the husband turns around and sues you for not obtaining a model release.
You may, as is done in journalism approach a subject you just photographed, note their identity and request permission to use their image. This is better- however, due to the fact that alcohol is being served and it's a party where no one expects to be modelling for advertising - the consent is easily contestable should a privacy issue arise.
What's the worst privacy issue you could face?
You photograph a guy dancing romantically with his mistress at a wedding his wife isn't privy too - and when her attorney uses it to win her a big financial award in divorce - the husband turns around and sues you for not obtaining a model release.
FYI: You really shouldn't be using photos of people on your website without a valid model release. The model is the person in the photo - not the bride who invited them.
You may, as is done in journalism approach a subject you just photographed, note their identity and request permission to use their image. This is better- however, due to the fact that alcohol is being served and it's a party where no one expects to be modelling for advertising - the consent is easily contestable should a privacy issue arise.
What's the worst privacy issue you could face?
You photograph a guy dancing romantically with his mistress at a wedding his wife isn't privy too - and when her attorney uses it to win her a big financial award in divorce - the husband turns around and sues you for not obtaining a model release.
And someone could be blinded by one of your dance lights, trip, fall and hurt themselves and sue you because of it. Hey, it's just as likely as your scenario............
It's a free country. Everyone is free to make things as complicated as they want to cover themselves from the most far fetched scenerios.
I do know if I hired a DJ or any vendor, and he was asking my guests to sign a form, he'd be shown the door because I certainly would not have approved it before hand
I do know if I hired a DJ or any vendor, and he was asking my guests to sign a form, he'd be shown the door because I certainly would not have approved it before hand
I think there is a reasonable expectation that cameras will be at any event in this day and age and also that those pictures will end up somewhere on the web weather it's social media, a wedding album, or a website somewhere
There is no expectation (and no right) that your image can be exploited for commercial purpose without your express consent. Your webite, and your business page on Facebook are not "social media" - they are advertising.
Failure to prove that consent was obtained or implied (model had clear knowledge that the photo was for commercial purpose) will lose in court every single time. The issue is no longer about a photo - it becomes one of implied endorsement.
How quick I suppose your position would change if you suddenly saw yourself on TV and in national magazines because an advertising exec. from Coca-Cola happened to be at a wedding and snap a candid picture of you drinking a Coke. DJs taking photos have the same responsibility.
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Tempest in a tea cup. Would you care to cite any case, anywhere in the U.S. where a DJ was sued by a wedding guest for posting a photo to the DJ's website? While (perhaps) technically correct, I find it virtually impossible to see it as realistically actionable.
I would think that a reasonable action was to ask the DJ to remove the picture .. though I suppose if the image I chose to put on a website featured a single focal point, I would try to get their permission to use the image .. group shots, I wouldn't and would deal with the issues as they arose.
No, you can do that research on your own time.
The case about the angry ex nabbed by a photo? That one is real and I still hear about many analogous tales that crop up in the news and commentary sections from time to time.
Hell, Robin Thicke is getting divorced after the reflection in a published photo shows him again grabbing yet, another woman's a---.
Reason goes out the window when there is money involved.
Take the Coca-Cola example. It's a multi-million dollar advertising campaign and the benefits are already being reaped. Editors, graphic designers, print and broadcast media are all getting paid, Coke sales are getting a boost - but, no one has compensated you for the modelling shot that made it all happen.
Coke claims you had a "reasonable expectation. " You gonna just tell them to stop using it?
The divorce case; the ex is angry as hell and just wants a piece of somebody. You are an easy target. Think they'll be "reasonable" just because the money isn't millions?
You just never know when you're going to step on a bee-hive or that piece of gum that sticks to your shoe. It pays to tread carefully.
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Why does one have to take 100 pics at every event? As an astute business person, you would think that one would want to avoid problems. If one needs to update a website with new pics they can legally buy stock photos and even then, get permission to post those for commercial purposes. The Last resort would be to blur the faces and any recognizable markings such as Tattoos! Why argue about something that is so logical? DJs are always complaining that Clients don't want to pay full prices for DJ services but they the DJs are always looking for a free ride for themselves. Buy the damn photos and eliminate the liability!!!
... or simply ASK the client to endorse you. Ask them if they will pose with you for a photo that you can use to refer new business.
It's that simple.
So, there's some good looking people having a ball on the dancefloor? Ask them if you can take a picture to use on your website. That's all it takes. (Do this BEFORE taking the picture, and then show them the image! FYI: This may not protect you if the subject is a minor.)
Take a look at the seedy under-belly of this issue: that Girls Gone Wild guy who's been sued dozens of times. He successfully defends when it turns out the subject was asked and subsequently voluntarily complied. He loses everytime he fails to ask and does something more akin to upskirting.
It's that simple.
So, there's some good looking people having a ball on the dancefloor? Ask them if you can take a picture to use on your website. That's all it takes. (Do this BEFORE taking the picture, and then show them the image! FYI: This may not protect you if the subject is a minor.)
Take a look at the seedy under-belly of this issue: that Girls Gone Wild guy who's been sued dozens of times. He successfully defends when it turns out the subject was asked and subsequently voluntarily complied. He loses everytime he fails to ask and does something more akin to upskirting.
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