Bose vs EV Live-x tops (this one is for Cap)

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rickryan.com

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I worked a wedding at the local country club. 3500 sq foot room and probably 55X70 dimensions. They stick the DJ over in the corner of the room. As many of you know, I bought some Yorkie LS801p subs and have been using Carvin 3-way tops for the past couple of years. The past few weeks though I've been using my Bose L1/M2 with a single yorkie sub and have been getting compliments from the venue operators. Yesterday, I wanted to change things up a bit so I pulled out the EV Live-X 12 speakers. Ran a full-range signal from my Denon MC6000 mixer to the yorkie, then its output (100hz and above) to the EVs. Noticed right off the bat that the tone was much darker and weaker. Played with them a good 15 minutes but never could get them to what I call acceptable. Pulled out the Bose (with a single B1 sub), plugged it in and honestly couldn't believe the difference. I had the Bose about 50% and the Yorkie at 50% and they were perfectly matched. On sub duty, the Bose B1s seem to fall off at about 50 feet and the bottom end feels weak. By contrast, the LS801p is powerful and deep and filled the entire room. Add to that the coverage of the Bose top end and this was a seriously killer system that I was just barely pushing yet had that room filled. One other thing, this week I stacked the L1 tower on top of the LS801p. Not sure if it helps coverage but it sure seemed so. The pic shows the Bose sub sitting up there but I had to move it to the floor, as it was dancing around and would've fallen. This rig is a very simple and very quick setup and sounds amazing and with power to spare and I never saw even the first limit light on either the sub or the Bose (when used alone, the Bose will occasionally tap its limit light during the night). Here's a pic of my setup:

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I'll add in, this was a party of about 100 and when they walked in, my first assessment was "this is going to be dead on arrival". The bride was not a dancer and the groom could only be dragged out on a slow song. I believe the Bose/Yorkie rig helped, a lot and this was a good dance set. The clients were very pleased with how everything came out.
 
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Let's see... a $450 EV speaker vs. a $2200+ Bose system. It shouldn't be a surprise that the Bose system steamrolls a pair of ELX112P's. You're comparing apples to grapefruit.
 
Rick,
Once I got to hear the Bose system I was surprised (In a very good way) at how they sounded. There's a place for them among the different individuals out there.
 
Now, if they made a pole adapter so you could get them higher, THAT might be something. I'm still thinking of getting a small set (1S) but wonder how they'll sound in a small space when you can't get the HF units above people heads (like I do with my JBL PRX). I'm thinking a lot of lost HF.
 
I have the compacts and set them on top of black plastic crates I bought at Walmart. I think it does help to get the sound going further into the room by getting the small speaker area higher. With the addition of a crossover and a sub, i can actually get them fairly loud. Not as loud as I could get my old B52 Matrix 1000 system, but much better than it was. The low end seems to make the Compacts want to clip at lower volumes. Maybe when I can make the big money, I'll get the bigger brothers.
 
Let's see... a $450 EV speaker vs. a $2200+ Bose system. It shouldn't be a surprise that the Bose system steamrolls a pair of ELX112P's. You're comparing apples to grapefruit.

If we were talking full range, I'd tend to agree with you but in this scenario, each speaker is only handling top duty. Those EVs were proclaimed as 1000 watt boxes. They should easily be able to put out more SPL than the Bose, if the claims were anywhere near true. In terms of money, the EVs were $1k while the Bose was $2.4k. Speaking to Sarge's mention of the Bose (albeit Compacts) clipping, I saw that same thing when I was using the Bose as my entire sound system. It made me nervous that I was going to burn the thing out and is why I migrated to different systems. Anything over 2k in room size and I'd see clip lights (red) during the dance portion and you could feel it compress on bigger hits. In this configuration, I never saw the first clip light on either unit and I was pushing some pretty large SPL.

In the past few months I've worked 4 gigs with this configuration. Two of them in smaller rooms, one 40'X80' outdoor pavilion and this one in a country club main ballroom. The coverage seemed more pronounced on this last gig where I got the L1 up higher.
 
Not going to get all techie on anyone and please do not take this as a finger waggle in the face for those who elevate or place their L1 (any model) on anything other than the deck, however the reason for the exact height and design of the radiators is to extend and double the wave propagation of a line array. The absolute best results of any L1 model anything are obtained with the powerstand being on the floor or at the back end of a stage.

If non-owners ever have the opportunity to audition an L1 (model whatever) and the units are perched atop something, and/or the there's an active or passive EQ/processing unit (other than the T1) in the signal chain, and/or the mixer's EQ is not set at flat, and/or there's another manufacturer's bass/subwoofer being used as a replacement of a Bose bass module instead as an augmentation alongside one, you are not/will not/cannot take this as the common denominator sound of an L1 (model anything) system.

Yes, even when all the correct placements and settings parameters are completely ignored, it'll still sound great, but it'll never be a good as it could be, and that's where the declining spiral begins (trying to make it better even though the original pilot error hasn't been corrected.)

I'm here to help with L1 questions and issues. It's in our mutual benefit to do so.
 
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Thanks for the input, Cap. Not trying to argue with you but I know what I heard and after owning that L1 for 5+ years, I've heard it in probably every scenario possible and that setup was THE best I've ever heard out of the L1. That room has an 18-foot ceiling in the middle with a 10-foot ceiling around the perimeter (about 15-feet deep). Do you think it possible that the outer ceiling lip might have been helping the dispersion? On the low-end, I have to admit, I like the tonal balance of the L1 with double subs (haven't heard the B2 yet) but it simply doesn't have enough gas at crunch time, nor can it produce the lows that a good 18 will produce. I know I'm talking to the wind but I'd really encourage the boys/girls at Bose to take a look at pairing this rig with some bigger subs. I've tried feeding the sub from the bass-out on the L1 but it just doesn't have the same effect as feeding only 100hz+ from the sub to the input of the L1. I'm here to tell you, the L1/Yorkie rig combination is world-class good.
 
Not going to get all techie on anyone and please do not take this as a finger waggle in the face for those who elevate or place their L1 (any model) on anything other than the deck, however the reason for the exact height and design of the radiators is to extend and double the wave propagation of a line array. The absolute best results of any L1 model anything are obtained with the powerstand being on the floor or at the back end of a stage.

If non-owners ever have the opportunity to audition an L1 (model whatever) and the units are perched atop something, and/or the there's an active or passive EQ/processing unit (other than the T1) in the signal chain, and/or the mixer's EQ is not set at flat, and/or there's another manufacturer's bass/subwoofer being used as a replacement of a Bose bass module instead as an augmentation alongside one, you are not/will not/cannot take this as the common denominator sound of an L1 (model anything) system.

Yes, even when all the correct placements and settings parameters are completely ignored, it'll still sound great, but it'll never be a good as it could be, and that's where the declining spiral begins (trying to make it better even though the original pilot error hasn't been corrected.)

I'm here to help with L1 questions and issues. It's in our mutual benefit to do so.

Cap, it would seem that the propagation properties would be based on the distance between and quantity of drivers .. not the distance from the floor (which might affect tonal qualities). So on a stable base, and keeping the unit vertical, it would seem from a physics point of view that it should behave the same elevated on a subwoofer as it does on the floor .. same as on a raised stage. Keeping it stable may be an issue, but that should be easy to overcome with some strapping or mechanical support.
 
Sorry guys. I knew the comments would create a shyte storm of sorts.

Rick, a single B2 will astound you. Dual L1 Model 2 with a B2 bass module each allowed me to sell four B1 bass modules and both my Mackie 1500's.

Steve, I'll message you the answer to your question. The reflection distance at 6'6" tall radiators is a key property.
 
Cap .. the mathematical theory shows a comparison between a speaker without a floor (I'm assuming a Model 2 here) and one perpendicular to a continuous floor (and presumably directly on it). A speaker set on a subwoofer (or similar) is still perpendicular to a floor, so while the numbers may be lower, it would appear to be better than a "no floor" model and from a modelling perspective, it wouldn't be any different than a Model 2 perched on a limited depth (say less than 20-30 feet deep) stage, which would put the propagation pattern a good 2.5-4 feet above the listeners (though that would help the higher octaves a bit).

For me, who would be looking at a Model 1S, the drivers already start about 3.5 feet above the floor surface, so these numbers wouldn't apply directly .. they would be different .. and probably not a whole lot different from elevating them another foot or so, which, while changing the relationships of the lowest octaves, would seem to benefit dispersion of the highest ones.

The floor in the model is adding the same benefit as it would to a sub-woofer that is placed nearer to a wall or corner.
 
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On a slightly related note, I always love it when you see guests talking about the Bose. Had a couple of guys on this who were right in front of it and you could see them pointing and asking each other "Is this what's making the music?" That's one of the really fun parts of using it on gigs.
 
The visual aspect is the primary reason I would pick up a pair .. they just look clean.
 
I prefer to use my model 2's with my T1 and the B2.
The clarity at high volume is something I've yet to hear in another system

The unit has software designed for the B2 and knows how to draw on it's strengths.

I do believe most speaker companies tweet their subs and mixers to work best with their own equipment. Same story here.

It is extremely rare that I'll touch red on any channel throughout the night.
 
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I use 2 some times. Many times just 1. The 2nd is there as a back up. It stays in my car. I've had to use a back up once in 8 years

Just about every piece of back up equipment is the same as the first. That way if a cord goes or something small, I can just change out that.

Past Saturday, 200 people. I was right in the center, 100 to my right 100 to my left. Dance floor and bridal party in front of me. Tons of compliments. Very successful.

I've found the 2nd doesn't do much in that situation. I run mono always. I use a second one for odd shaped or large rooms and put it wirelessly across the room.

The $5-6k per set up is more than worth the piece of mind. I know clients will be happy and easy for me or the DJ.

I like things to be great quality, simple and quickly replaceable. It's why I use senheisser mics too. I have a bunch of sets of Senheisser ew100G2, some handheld, some lav, few head mic/sound system mics. All interchangeable.
 
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Sorry guys but I love the Bose system. I have yet to find an event that we do that we do not receive a ton of compliments from clients and venues. And isn't that what it's really all about. Both of the weddings we did this last weekend were outside and they sounded great. We use 2 L-1's and two B-2's.

Just recently I had a problem with one of the three L-1's that we have I talked to Bose and they are offering an incredible deal to us. In fact I will be sending them two of our three Bose at the end of the year. To get two of the new Bose L-1 model 2's and I'm very happy. Bose has done nothing but give us the best for the last 7 years. )
 
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Bot the same thing really, but what I do like about Bose is their customer service. I used to work at a retail store that sold Bose home gear. We had a piece that didn't work right. Every month or so, my store manager would write stuff off and sell the gear for insanely cheap prices to employees ( and the money would buy us lunch or dinner ).... I bought a Bose Video Roommate that had issues. I called Bose and told them of the problem, and they fixed it at no charge, even though it was several years old, and had been through the wars of being messed with by retail customers. All I did was pay shipping to Bode and they did the rest, AND sent an apology letter for having had issues with their product. So far, no issues with my L1 system, but it doesn't get used a ton, and I treat it well.