Outdoor Rig Advice

[DJGoodSteve]

Ok, the forum has convinced me I must reevaluate my setup and invest in a passive rig for outdoor gigs. I have a graduation party coming up over Memorial Day weekend for about 100 high school grads in a residential back yard. I'm told I'll be on the deck overlooking the lawn that sweeps out into a field beyond the yard. Later in the year I'll be using the same rig for the road-side mountain-top parties I've mentioned before.

I'm going to unload two of my ELX 112ps (leaving me with two remaining) and I'll keep my twp ELX 118ps.

I see good reviews of the EV Tour X TX1152. With a 60x40 horn, I'm thinking this will be a good outdoor speaker. I'd intend to bring along my 118ps, keeping them with me under cover, while running the TX1152's out in the open. Please let me know your thoughts on these tops.

As far as the amp, it appears the QSC GX5 is a popular model for the price. I've also seen mention of the Peavey IPR3000 which is the same price but looks like a bit more powerful. This whole setup is going to run about $1,800. I'd prefer to keep it closer to $1,500... but I'm going to push my budget a bit to pick up good mid-tier stuff.

Thanks as always.

 

[rickryan.com]

Steve, I own both the GX5 and the IPR3000 (2 of them in fact). The Peavey wins, hands down and it serves as my main rig (my Live-X 12s stay in storage). It's not even a contest. The only reason I still have my GX5 is because I couldn't get any money out of it to buy another IPR3000. The IPR is about 1/3 the weight and has more punch and has hi/low pass filters built-in. Last Friday, I ran 2 pairs of tops (4-ohm loads on each amp channel) and it covered a 100 yard X 200 yard field quite well. I've only seen the DDT lights bump on 2 occasions. As soon as the 5000 and 7500 are shipping you can bet I'll be the first to buy. BTW, a pair of carvin neos and the IPR3000 ran me a bit less than $800. A pair of Peavey PV118s adds about $500 giving me a bi-amped rig with double 18s for $1,300.

 

[steve149]

For a backyard gig, passives aren't necessary IMO. Where passives shine is in 2 places: weatherability and top end performance (with appropriate top end gear). Without electronics, you have more flexibility with passive as far as placement, especially in inclement weather .. not as much fear in light rain. Also, you can get bigger stuff in passive than you can in reasonably priced active, so if you are covering a town green or a baseball field or similar, you're probably better with big passives.

For a backyard party, I don't think there is an advantage, as you can usually find a place to tuck actives out of the way and weather.

 

[DJGoodSteve]

Thanks for the additional perspective Steve. Looking long term, we're going to do two nights outdoors at 12,000ft in August. I'm even wondering if some plastic cabinets might be the better way to go. All sorts of weather could blow in. Of course, by then I'll be scrambling to throw everything back in the van. The subs will live in the van. In the long run it will be nice to have a solid passive system as well as a solid active system. Perhaps however I don't need to rush out so urgently and grab new gear for Memorial Day.

 

[ahoustondj]

Thanks for the additional perspective Steve. Looking long term, we're going to do two nights outdoors at 12,000ft in August. I'm even wondering if some plastic cabinets might be the better way to go. All sorts of weather could blow in. Of course, by then I'll be scrambling to throw everything back in the van. The subs will live in the van. In the long run it will be nice to have a solid passive system as well as a solid active system. Perhaps however I don't need to rush out so urgently and grab new gear for Memorial Day.

The passives will do all applications. You can always add actives later.

 

[steve149]

Too broad Canute. I've done a few small ceremonial type things with a powered speaker and a mic. Can't do that with a passive system. Nothing wrong with passives, I have them. But one could make almost anything work in most situations. they both have their place.

Buy for what you need the most, rent what you don't have until you have enough business to justify it.

 

[ahoustondj]

Look at what he said he wants to do. I don't see any ceremony being mentioned. He can get more mileage as a start with a good selection of passives. The smaller stuff can follow. BTW what were DJs using for ceremonies before passives came along?

 

[rickryan.com]

Thanks for the additional perspective Steve. Looking long term, we're going to do two nights outdoors at 12,000ft in August. I'm even wondering if some plastic cabinets might be the better way to go. All sorts of weather could blow in. Of course, by then I'll be scrambling to throw everything back in the van. The subs will live in the van. In the long run it will be nice to have a solid passive system as well as a solid active system. Perhaps however I don't need to rush out so urgently and grab new gear for Memorial Day.

The carvins have a case that lets you run them in the rain. The front panel un-zips with access panels at the rear for cable. As for scrambling to throw everything back in the van, why leave the van? This was last Friday at a school event.

 

[steve149]

Look at what he said he wants to do. I don't see any ceremony being mentioned. He can get more mileage as a start with a good selection of passives. The smaller stuff can follow. BTW what were DJs using for ceremonies before passives came along?

Nothing wrong with passives as I said, but until you get to outdoor and small concert specific stuff, there really isn't anything that passives can do and actives can not .. and there are places actives are a better bet, just as there are places passives are better. Buy what you need to fill the majority of your work.

 

[rickryan.com]

there really isn't anything that passives can do and actives can not ..

Passives can sit and work in the rain. I wouldn't suggest that with actives. Passives won't thermal if they're sitting in full sunlight. They're also typically lighter weight and they don't require an AC power line to be run to each box. That really helps on an outdoor event where it's often needed to spread speakers to maximize coverage.

 

[steve149]

Passives can sit and work in the rain. I wouldn't suggest that with actives. Passives won't thermal if they're sitting in full sunlight. They're also typically lighter weight and they don't require an AC power line to be run to each box. That really helps on an outdoor event where it's often needed to spread speakers to maximize coverage.

I used to use my Mackies in direct sunlight in the summer and never had a thermal problem, even going 7+ hours. And you can run actives in inclement weather with a rain shield on it (re-purposed trash bag has worked as well). Again, in bad weather and outside, a passive system has more flexibility and is probably a better choice.

For MOST DJs, an active system is a better overall choice in today's market. One can usually get a good sound out with minimal knowledge of the inner workings. Yes I know some of us know how to make a passive system sing, but to say it's a better bet isn't pragmatic. So if one uses an active system for most jobs, it makes sense to limp it through the others if possible, so I just wanted Steve to be comfortable that an active system CAN and has been used outdoors, in the rain, etc. (again, not that it's the best tool). If one does enough business to justify the business expensive, buy both. Otherwise, get what makes sense and make it work (and no, scoops and 802s don't make sense for most people ).

 

[ahoustondj]

(and no, scoops and 802s don't make sense for most people ).

It makes a lot of sense to my Bank Deposits. I laugh all the way to the Bank.

 

[rickryan.com]

Steve, I highly respect your opinion but obviously we'll have to agree to disagree. While I know you prefer actives, for me, actives create a constant, nagging worry for me at gigs. On outdoor stuff, I'm worried about heat and rain. On indoor things, I'm having to spend time thinking about and checking whether I'm over-driving the signal. In comparing the tone, I personally don't see any real difference between using an external amp or an internal one. They're pretty much equal in terms of ease of use. I used actives for a couple of years and honestly didn't realize what a pain that extra cable was to supply power to the cab until I didn't have to do it any more. More power to you though. Enjoy.

 

[ahoustondj]

Steve, I highly respect your opinion but obviously we'll have to agree to disagree. While I know you prefer actives, for me, actives create a constant, nagging worry for me at gigs. On outdoor stuff, I'm worried about heat and rain. On indoor things, I'm having to spend time thinking about and checking whether I'm over-driving the signal. In comparing the tone, I personally don't see any real difference between using an external amp or an internal one. They're pretty much equal in terms of ease of use. I used actives for a couple of years and honestly didn't realize what a pain that extra cable was to supply power to the cab until I didn't have to do it any more. More power to you though. Enjoy.

Besides which you miss your workout, eh! Passive/heavier speakers and amp racks eliminate the Gym Membership!

 

[jtnichol]

I like both styles for different reasons...but if you are only looking at 200 people or so (generally speaking) and you'll be doing outdoor stuff regularly then I'd suggest getting All Weather coated speakers....Yes, you can find actives/passives. If you are on mountain tops regularly then you know how ofter a stupid rain cloud can form and dump for 30 seconds then float away.

It's not a matter of passive/active. You can buy both and have equal results to the average listener. Your goal now I believe is to guide your purchases towards a system that can operate in any condition. For me...Passive would be the easiest to accommodate.

Aside from the jack plates on my cabs I have stripped the carpet down and layered on Duratex nice and thick. http://www.speakerhardware.com/ is my go to choice for these types of supplies. The next step would be to mount a sealing box over the terminals on the speakers to protect inputs.

 

[DJGoodSteve]

The carvins have a case that lets you run them in the rain. The front panel un-zips with access panels at the rear for cable. As for scrambling to throw everything back in the van, why leave the van? This was last Friday at a school event.

Now you're talking Rick. Fully self-contained would be a great goal for this event. Weatherized is indeed an important concept which is my only hesitation with the Tour X speakers. I'd have to go out and find some good all-weather covers. I've seen some cool covers that allow airflow through but keep moisture out... but I imagine they're spendy. If we want to talk about dream setups, looks like I have to go check on renting this from Red Bull:

 

[DJGoodSteve]

Rick, the Carvins you're talking about, are they from the TRxN line? They do mention moisture and UV resistance. Plus, they're not so expensive that I'd be constantly worried about them at the first dark cloud.

 

[steve149]

Steve, I highly respect your opinion but obviously we'll have to agree to disagree. While I know you prefer actives, for me, actives create a constant, nagging worry for me at gigs. On outdoor stuff, I'm worried about heat and rain. On indoor things, I'm having to spend time thinking about and checking whether I'm over-driving the signal. In comparing the tone, I personally don't see any real difference between using an external amp or an internal one. They're pretty much equal in terms of ease of use. I used actives for a couple of years and honestly didn't realize what a pain that extra cable was to supply power to the cab until I didn't have to do it any more. More power to you though. Enjoy.

I think we're missing some of the post data.

I only favor actives as a basis for a basic DJ rig. I have passives and know when they are a better choice. As for managing the system, I see fewer issues driving an active system with built in limiting and signal conditioning, over an equivalent passive system for most systems. And as for cabling, I have 25' duo cables that contain a shielded power cable and shielded XLR to go to each cab .. very slick.

There are some of you that can run circles around an active system with your passive/amp systems because you know all the basics of gain, compression, limiting, etc. .. but, being the pragmatic realist I am, most do not, and therefore WILL LIKELY get a better sound out of a pair of actives.

Just trying to play devils advocate to dispel some of the half-truths.

 

[rickryan.com]

Rick, the Carvins you're talking about, are they from the TRxN line? They do mention moisture and UV resistance. Plus, they're not so expensive that I'd be constantly worried about them at the first dark cloud.

I got the cheaper, plastic neos that ran me about $225/speaker. I have a pair of 12s (which go with my main rig) and a pair of 15s. The PM-series has a 3-way that I'm thinking hard about getting. While I realize I lose being able to sell on the equipment name, the performance of this gear has been far more than I ever expected.

As for the cover, it has a zipper in the front. You just un-zip it and fold the flap back to expose the drivers. The jacks in the rear are covered by a flag that is velcroed in place. When it's raining, you just pull the flap up, plug-in, the let the flap back down to cover the jacks. I've used it in the rain on a couple of occasions already. I would've gone nuts worrying about my powered units. BTW, the powered units now pretty much just act as wireless remotes on the gigs where I need a distributed system.

 

[jtnichol]

"WILL LIKELY" in all caps....oh boy here we go...

Steve...all good and well when conditions are dry. As it relates to the OP and being in the elements I'd rather run a speaker cable in the rain than signal tied back directly signal processing AND a power cord. If it's raining you'll be less likely to trip a breaker or blow a fuse on the back of the speaker.

To your argument about passive/active....In most instances when powered speakers are used (that I've seen) the operator runs them direct from a mixer. Somehow folks with medium or even good quality actives have full faith in the internal DSP onboard the speaker. Suitable, but not great and very much the norm.

In most instances I've seen with passives using more than one amp there is always some amount of DSP in the chain so at least there is the ability at the rack to quickly change settings. It kind of goes without saying that you need to have some rack gear or a Driverack at least if you choose passive anyway. Plus the control of all that is local and not 25' away on a stand.

Here's your options on most Actives "Bass and Treble."....same for DJ mixers.

It's all subjective of course.